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element105
Joined: 14 Jun 2004 Posts: 518 Location: Tsingtao,China
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Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 12:58 am Post subject: |
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Does anyone understands half the *beep* that this guy talked about?
Ok,Azaquiel,let me tell you sth.
First,It's not that we want taiwan to be a part of China,as a fact of truth,taiwan has been a part of China for around one thousand years.What nationality does they use on their passport?ROC,Repblic of China,not Republic of Taiwan.
Second,what's wrong with saying that China belongs to all Chinese people?Otherwise you want to say China belonging to Americans?hah,funny!And about the USA's close ties of supporting nations,what's the definition of a such close tie?IMO,country supportting everything that the USA does,which of course maybe wrong and evil sometimes,will be considered as an ally,am I right?So perhaps they see all around are enemies now,even past allies France and Germany haven't supportted on the invasion to Iraq,of course nor the UN.Now,whole Islam world is angry about they desecrating the Koran,yeah,they are all terrorists now according to your word.
Third,thoughout history,you can find to many saying about the relationship between past and now,an old Chinese saying is "History is a mirror which reflects the current perspective"(maybe I interpret it badly).That's why people study history,learn from history.So what we are protesting against Japan on the worshipping issue is to prevent history from repeating itself.
Fourth,many people which includes me repeated it again and again that we dont want to go to war with them unless they declare independent,keeping current status and solving this with communication is wiser for them.I am wondering what will you say if we really do as you said?Do you want we to go to war?hahah
Fifth,just as you said "If you do not know the whole story, then just shut up and don't talk as if you are some sports analyst",why dont you just shut up when you know nothing about it?That guy I posted was their former president and the leader of the separatists,what do you expect could have happen if his dream comes true?He can do everything but hauling taiwan down to deep water.He is another Jokhar Dudayev
And repeat again,here's thread talking about Japanese history book,you wanna talk about taiwan go to post a new one about that.
BTW,hitman asked me of my feeling of Tibetan refugees in Japan,sorry it was too late that night to answer,let me answer now,they are cut from the same cloth with al-qeada,chechnya separatists,etc. |
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 01 Jun 2004 Posts: 9 Location: Panjin, China
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Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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element105 wrote:
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Does anyone understands half the *beep* that this guy talked about? |
I did.
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First,It's not that we want taiwan to be a part of China,as a fact of truth,taiwan has been a part of China for around one thousand years. |
Do you think that Taiwanese want to be ruled by Beijing?
The answer is not yes... |
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Azaquiel
Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 55
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Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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I have never gotten the chance to be exposed to enough Chinese history but I guess my interest of learning it through you is not that welcomed. Sorry for the unwanted interruption.
To Element, and Admiral:
I read up on the Taiwan and this thread but it still hasn't gotten me any answers. I do not learn history through unsettled resputes that you exchange with those who think otherwise. History was never clear or concrete. However, again and again you claim yourselves to know the only possible version of history; since no one else had the truthful version. I may not be educated enough in history because I never went to chinese school like you did. I guess it is a great shame for the people from the rest of the world, except for the Germans, since they were Holocaust's hosting country.
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Anyone who always makes mistakes is too arrogant to search for the truth. |
Thank you for the pun. If I made a mistake, I will admit it. Element and Mr. Admiral must be right. They have defended their claims for almost 4 pages against comments pointed out from numerous people. So why do we continue on challenging their claims? If they are so obviously right, then they must really be. Do I sense a whack of arrogance in them both? No, it can't be because they had the most historical education possible out of everyone from the rest of the world. They are the ones who know everything about Chinese history. So kudo points to you both. May your dreams and demands come true one day.
Being back on topic, I read in the news that Koizumi apologized for the incident, so I thought the controversy was over. Thus, I made no comment on it. I'm sorry. _________________ A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.
Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
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element105
Joined: 14 Jun 2004 Posts: 518 Location: Tsingtao,China
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Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 4:26 am Post subject: |
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Let me clarify something first,Azaquiel,you are the as welcome as other people to learn Chinese history,though I am not good at it I'd like to tell you what I know.But one thing you should understand,before your history knowledge is capable to discuss,you'd better keep silent or keep neutral.So before you have gotten the ideas of what Japanese had done to us and what they are doing,to keep silent is your best choice.
You seem too busy or just too lazy to read the previous posts,otherwise you would have known what Admiral and I were saying were enough to make you clear of that.History is history which has truely happened and cannot be changed.Why don't you ask me what made us claim ourselves knowing the only possible version of history,the reason is that we have the evidences of that history.Why do I believe that Japan had invade us and done numrous sins to us?Why do I believe that what they are doing is not acceptable and shameful?Because I have seen the evidence,I've been to Nanjing,I've seen the countless bones of victims,I've seen the countless pictures of the victims,I've seen countless films of their expariments done to alive Chinese people.I've heard a lot of their brutal crimes from the old people who have suffered.If you want to know I can tell you more about this.Now,by the way I want to ask the Japanese who said that we killed many Japanese in war,who were them that you claimed?Were they the common people?Were they women,oldmen,chindren or even babies?None of them!All Japanese that we had killed in WWII were soldiers of regular armies.Because it was your invasion to us and all of the battles were in China,not Japan island.My city Tsingtao was a colony of Japan,I know much better than you people who may have never been to China.If you think you are right,you point out which of my words in wrong.I believe what Admiral and I have done is making you understand of that in order to prevent history from repeating again.Though we are negligible,I think I know what we are doing.You also have the right to keep you mind thinking we just nagging from page1-4. |
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element105
Joined: 14 Jun 2004 Posts: 518 Location: Tsingtao,China
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Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 4:31 am Post subject: |
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The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
Do you think that Taiwanese want to be ruled by Beijing?
The answer is not yes... |
Do they wanna go to war?
The answer is not yes... |
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Azaquiel
Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 55
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Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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you'd better keep silent or keep neutral. |
I wanted to keep silent, because I basically know nothing about it. I didn't sound neutral when I was asking questions, because I wanted a certain degree of bias in the way I posted my questions.
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You seem too busy or just too lazy to read the previous posts... |
Work, too many 8 to 12 hour shifts these days..
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You also have the right to keep you mind thinking we just nagging from page1-4. |
^^, _________________ A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.
Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
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Kanae.M
Joined: 15 May 2005 Posts: 3 Location: Japan
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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We Japanese killed so many people at WW2. I sincerely apologize to these countries. I�m so sorry. But we must not think that we want to invade china, again, and control Chinese politics. We want to improve our relationship. In conclusion, I want to ask somebody a question. �How do we do for these countries to improve recently situation?� |
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element105
Joined: 14 Jun 2004 Posts: 518 Location: Tsingtao,China
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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Kanae.M wrote: |
We Japanese killed so many people at WW2. I sincerely apologize to these countries. I�m so sorry. But we must not think that we want to invade china, again, and control Chinese politics. We want to improve our relationship. In conclusion, I want to ask somebody a question. �How do we do for these countries to improve recently situation?� |
It's rarely seeing a Japanese in this thread.Ok,I repeat,agian,on how do you do to promote the relationship among Japan and WWII victim countries.Actually it's easy for you Japanese to achieve what we ask.One of my suggestions is your prime minister to stop worshipping at yasukuni shrine,another one is to remove names of war criminals out of the shrine.Otherwise,if you can't do such easy thing,talking about relationship-improving things is meaningless.
As for Japan's ambition and destination in WWII,you can clearly get known from the tanaka memorial. |
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asterix
Joined: 26 Jan 2003 Posts: 1654
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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What happened 70 years ago cannot be changed.
What is the point of flogging a dead horse? It will get you nowhere and it may cost you much.
It is time those of you who see China as a victim, took a look at China today. It is not a victim. It is a vast booming economy, and on that economy the wealth and well-being of the Chinese people depends.
It is time the paranoia about Japan came to an end. |
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element105
Joined: 14 Jun 2004 Posts: 518 Location: Tsingtao,China
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Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 5:16 am Post subject: |
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I entirely agree with you.However,who flogged the dead horse first? |
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jjc7283
Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 10
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Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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It seems that this problem will lag on for a long time. part of it may be on the Japanese side, but it seems that the chinese attitude is also a big factor. a lot of what element makes a lot of sense and is very understandable. but if you take a look at those comments from the outside there is a hate toward japan which doesnt seem like it will go away. element seems to disregard article 9 for some reason, it is not lie and it is valid. yes there are problems with it just like any law, but it is an effort on the japanese side. if you attack every effort made on the japanese side, this will not be solved. article 9 is a good effort, it will likely not be changed, don't use it as another thing to attack the japanese on. attack it if it is ammended. before going on and on attacking japan and its wrong doing, take a look at yourselves, what you are doing, saying, what your country is doing. i am sure you will find there are factors which that chinese are at fault, misled, or a misunderstanding between the countries. it takes two to solve this problem and removing the war criminals is not enough to sooth the chinese. |
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element105
Joined: 14 Jun 2004 Posts: 518 Location: Tsingtao,China
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Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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Last time you asked me my attitude and suggestion,I answered you clearly and surely enought I thought.Now,you say we have the big factor on attitude,I really don't understand why do you think so because the ball is holding in their hand,their attitude is the point.Why don't they stop doing those things?If they stop doing and we still not comfort,then you can criticise our attitude,not now,do you understand?If you think my words is understandable,why do you think it's unacceptable?And if article 9 is valid as you said,we probably cannot see Japanese army in Iraq.
Remind you of another thing,not only China angry about Japan's recent act,a S.Korean cut off his finger to protesting it ,havent you heard about it?You see,Japan almost has provoked all neibors
jjc7283 wrote: |
it takes two to solve this problem and removing the war criminals is not enough to sooth the chinese. |
Heh!!listen,I am a Chinese,I think removing the war criminals will work,Isn't it enough?Are you a Chinese?The suggestion shows sincerity in promoting Sino-japan relationship,if they dont take it,we are not the one to be criticised. |
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jjc7283
Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 10
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Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:28 am Post subject: |
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Yes most of what you say does make sense, i dont exactly agree with everything but thats how it goes.
and i believe there is a problem in the chineses attitude, there is just seems to be too much hate against the japanese. i understand that you may have gone to all the historical places that dipict what happened. im sure it was not a great site and it must have brought some hatred toward the japanese. but hating them is not the answer. hate will bring no good to the chinese-japanese relationship. as seen in the anti japanese protests, there was a lot of hate. and the japanese governement and people must realize this, but the way the protests turned out, destroyed the chinese image. they say the are fighting for justice, but what they did doesnt seem like they were fighting for justice, it seemed more like a bunch of crazy people running around. that is not the way to hold a protest. let the japanese know you suffered and that you are suffering, not that you hate them.
there are a lot of reasons that the japanese are in iraq, but all they are doing is making water. is that such a big deal?
and the korean guy who cut off his finger is just crazy, whats the point?
and fine if you say that removing the war criminals would sooth you then maybe thats what the japanese should do. the japanese should do it on their own but it clearly has not happened. so your government must takes action. they need to put more pressure on the japanese. and doing so now is kind of late if you think about it. and pressure placed in the past was not enough since we are arguing about it now. |
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element105
Joined: 14 Jun 2004 Posts: 518 Location: Tsingtao,China
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Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 6:24 am Post subject: |
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How to release hate?If today's Germans still honor Hitler and celerate what he did,what do Jews do?It's funny that you only saw the Chinese protesting but ignored why did we protest.If there were no Japanese politicians' worship of war criminals,no whitewash of textbook,then for what we protested?If Japan really concern the sino-japan relationship,if they really know that hate will bring no good,why they provoke hate again and again.Japan is playing a dangerous game.
Today Japan makes water,tomorrow it sh/its.
The point is every neighboring country has been provoked by Japan's ugly actions.
As you see,they don't do it even if they know clearly it will promote our relationship,what's their purpose,may be they just don't want to remedy it?So far as I know Chinese government(the same goes to S.Korean government) has been keeping pressure on Japan government for monthes ,but it seems doesn't work to them at all.Today I've actually heard that some of Japanese politicians claim to go to war with China at all costs,it's ridiculous and really mad of them. hahahahah  |
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asterix
Joined: 26 Jan 2003 Posts: 1654
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Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:58 am Post subject: |
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Now you see how this whole silly business escalates.
Do not laugh at Japanese politicians who talk about going to war with China. They are no sillier than Chinese politicians who say the same thing about Japan.
Eventually one side or the other, will get caught up in the rhetoric, and will feel they have to do something to save face. |
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