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stellara

Joined: 02 Apr 2005 Posts: 583 Location: germany
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Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 9:15 am Post subject: G8 - USA refuses to sign the kyoto-treaty |
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did you hear of that?! i just read it in the newspaper, a short notice about the coming G8-convention in scotland.
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US-president George W. Bush confirms his rejection of the Kyoto climate protection protocol. The USA would sign no convention which limits the greenhouse gas discharge, he said in TV. The USA is the only G-8-State who didn't sign the protocol. |
That's what was in the newspaper. i hope i translated it more or less okay so you can understand the meaning!
what do you think of it?!
greets _________________ Don't cry because it's over - smile because it happened!
MOKEY ROCKS!!! |
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asterix
Joined: 26 Jan 2003 Posts: 1654
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Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 6:22 am Post subject: |
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The USA has always refused to sign the Kyoto agreement. So has Australia.
Between 1990 & 2003
Russia has reduced its emissions by 35% and has beaten its Kyoto target by 35%.
Germany has reduced its emissions by 18.2% but is still 2.8% above its Kyoto target.
UK has reduced emissions by 13% and has beaten its Kyoto target by 0.5%.
France has reduced its emissions by 1.9% and has beaten its Kyoto target by 1.9%.
Japan has increased its emissions by 8.3% and is still 14.3% short of its Kyoto target.
Italy has increased its emissions by 11.5% and is 18% short of its Kyoto target.
USA has increased its emissions by 13% and is 20% short of its Kyoto target.
Canada has increased its emissions by 20%, and is 26% short of its Kyoto target.
Canada which has signed the Kyoto accord is doing worse than the USA, which has not.
Then there is China.
China has 16 of the world's 20 most polluted cities, and for 70% of its energy needs it depends on coal.
It is the second largest producer of greenhouse gases.
Currently it has a 23 000 megawatt shortfall in energy production.
Oil use doubled in the last ten years.
China's economy is increasing at a rate of 9% per year.
India's carbon emissions grew by 61% between 1990 and 2001 and are expected to triple by 2020.
So, it's not just the USA that's the problem. |
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stellara

Joined: 02 Apr 2005 Posts: 583 Location: germany
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Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 9:33 am Post subject: |
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whhoaa..
sorry, asterix, i didn't know that so exactly (i'm not very knowledgeable in foreign politics.. *shame on me* )
i was only very surprised about Bush's statement... i don't like him anyway - but maybe i should read up on other "sinners" ( ) more before judging..
but in my 'naive' opinion i'm apalled about such an attitude - i mean it's our all world and we can't just say "oh, that won't bother me, i'm already dead when this is happening" (sorry, about the exaggeration).
less than ever as the president of the United States!
greets _________________ Don't cry because it's over - smile because it happened!
MOKEY ROCKS!!! |
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asterix
Joined: 26 Jan 2003 Posts: 1654
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Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 3:25 am Post subject: |
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I prefer politicians who are honest about their intentions rather than politicians who promise to do something and then don't do it.
Canada, where I live, and some of the other nations I mentioned, have promised to do something, but you can see the result above.
I think that the cost to the economies of many countries who try to implement these targets will probably be considered too high, and the Kyoto ideal will quietly fade away.
Considering that 80% of the earth's surface is not inhabited, perhaps we are being arrogant in assuming that this climate change is being caused by man's activities. |
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element105
Joined: 14 Jun 2004 Posts: 518 Location: Tsingtao,China
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Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:22 am Post subject: |
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Which country every year consumes 80 percentage of the world's energy and productions to feeds just 5 percent of the world's population?  |
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hitman
Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 9
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Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:41 am Post subject: |
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OK, now we know that asterix and element have their modern statistics/clich�s. Asterix, if u live in Canada, why do you not consider that Canada only made it's first commitment April 13, 2005, when it launched the first phase of Project Green by releasing an updated plan for a healthy environment and a competitive economy. In North America, Canada is tied with the most strict emissions requirements (tied with the state of California) for automobiles. So Canadians were already doing well.
Environment Canada also says "The Plan provides for Government of Canada investments in the order of $10 billion between now and 2012 to fully realize the anticipated reductions of about 270 megatonnes. It also commits the Government of Canada to annual assessments of climate change initiatives and investments. Funding will be primarily reallocated, as necessary to ensure that measures are effective and cost-efficient, and that only actions resulting in greenhouse gas reductions are being funded. "
"Taken together, the following measures allow Canada to close its greenhouse gas emissions gap by 270 megatonnes by 2012"
I don't know about the other countries, but I am also in Canada. And I've paid special attention to this. Compared to Bush's administration and his saying no to the Kyoto accord, this commitment (which we have to see over the next years) is more than %100 better. |
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element105
Joined: 14 Jun 2004 Posts: 518 Location: Tsingtao,China
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Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:24 am Post subject: |
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Mr.Admiral wrote: |
USA has got 5 percent of the world population, right? And China? |
U.S. 296,553,830
World 6,452,396,822
13:29 GMT (EST+5) Jul 07, 2005
China mainland has that more than 1.3 billion |
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stellara

Joined: 02 Apr 2005 Posts: 583 Location: germany
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Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:48 am Post subject: |
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wow i started an interesting thread, as it seems..
besides, i don't expect a 'sorry' in an internet-forum
okay, i looked sth up and as i don't want to repeat everything, go on here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoto_protocol
but i have to quote something very interesting!
from wikipedia:
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China emits 2,893 million metric tons of CO2 per year (2.3 tons per capita). This compares to 5,410 million from the U.S. (20.1 tons per capita), and 3,171 million from the EU (8.5 tons per capita). Even though China is currently exempted, it has since ratified the Kyoto Protocol and is expected to declare itself an Annex I country within the next decade and make itself no longer be exempted. In fact, China's per capita emission is among the lowest ones in the world. The U.S. Natural Resources Defense Council stated in June 2001 that: "By switching from coal to cleaner energy sources, initiating energy efficiency programs, and restructuring its economy, China has reduced its carbon dioxide emissions 17 percent since 1997". |
(i don't know on which stand this is, just quoted it!)
soo, read through this carefully, and then put the blame on the second-largest emitter of greenhouse gases!
okay, to your statement:
asterix wrote:
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The USA has always refused to sign the Kyoto agreement. So has Australia. |
that's wrong. The USA (exactly: the former Vice-president Al Gore did it) has signed the Kyoto Protocol in 1998. it has only neither ratified nor withdrawn from the protocol until now. so the protocol is non-binding over the United States unless ratified.
asterix wrote:
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Considering that 80% of the earth's surface is not inhabited, perhaps we are being arrogant in assuming that this climate change is being caused by man's activities. |
ahm, hello?! we're not "assuming" anything here! it's a fact, often and by independent scientists ascertained!
and, you know what happens if there's too much CO2 in the athmosphere?!
okay, so you can see it by your own eyes, i'll give you a link to images which can show you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Carbon_Dioxide_400kyr.png
This figure shows the variations in concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere during the last 400 thousand years with a dramatic increase since the industrial revolution.
soo, that was long enough
greets _________________ Don't cry because it's over - smile because it happened!
MOKEY ROCKS!!! |
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Bob S.

Joined: 29 Apr 2004 Posts: 1767 Location: So. Cal
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Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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stellara wrote: |
asterix wrote: |
The USA has always refused to sign the Kyoto agreement. So has Australia. |
that's wrong. The USA (exactly: the former Vice-president Al Gore did it) has signed the Kyoto Protocol in 1998. it has only neither ratified nor withdrawn from the protocol until now. so the protocol is non-binding over the United States unless ratified. |
Well, you are both right, in a manner of speaking. It's a question of semantics.
A quick civics lesson for non-U.S. citizens (and U.S. citizens themselves probably):
Article 2, Section 2 of the U.S. Constitution (http://www.archives.gov/national_archives_experience/charters/constitution_transcript.html) says that the President must get 2/3 approval from the U.S. Senate to make a treaty with other countries. So while VP Algore signed it in 1998 (he could tattoo it on his butt if he wanted, that still wouldn't make it legal since his signature carries no weight), and Clinton signed it at the end of 2000 as he was leaving office, it was all for feel-good appearances (you know, like the whole "Live-8" thing). Pres Clinton never submitted it to the Senate for approval because he knew it would not pass.
see:
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/italy/03/29/environment.kyoto/index.html
Since the Senate never ratified it, legally and technically, the U.S. collectively never approved it.
Bush has also stated he has no plans to submit it to the Senate. Though, IMHO, the whole "but China is polluting too" excuse is just a red herring. Simply put, the treaty would hurt the U.S. economy (how much is debatable), and proposing a treaty like that during a recession would have been unwise at the time. And even today it is questionable about what effect the Kyoto treaty will truly have. Some commentators have noted that it seems more about slowing the U.S. economy to allow the E.U. to catch up than about stopping or slowing any future global warming. |
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mkg1211
Joined: 09 Sep 2004 Posts: 262 Location: Cairo,Egypt
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Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:17 am Post subject: |
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people,
asterix is a typical american
i won't be shocked if he sued a poor african woman as she uses wood in making food
because the smoke may affect his health
america is america ,don't expect anything else  |
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Bob S.

Joined: 29 Apr 2004 Posts: 1767 Location: So. Cal
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Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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mkg1211 wrote: |
asterix is a typical american
america is america ,don't expect anything else  |
I thought asterix was a Canuck I'm the bloody Yank! (Is there a bigger insult to a Canadian than to confuse them with Americans? ) If you are nice, he can send you some snow. No global warming trouble up there in the great white north.
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element105
Joined: 14 Jun 2004 Posts: 518 Location: Tsingtao,China
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Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 5:08 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by element105 on Wed Jul 20, 2005 5:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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element105
Joined: 14 Jun 2004 Posts: 518 Location: Tsingtao,China
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Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 5:10 am Post subject: |
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HAAAAAA
btw,if global warming is getteing rise to thaw of icebergs over there,I'd at once prepare some houses in tibet,maybe you'd need one  |
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asterix
Joined: 26 Jan 2003 Posts: 1654
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Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 2:44 am Post subject: |
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For your information, mkg. I don't live in the USA I live in Canada.
However, if I were a citizen of the USA I would not be ashamed of it.
America is trying to bring a better life to those of you, like mkg, who live in third world dicatatorships.
Naturally, those dictators, like Mubarak, Khomeini, Assad, Saddam, and the leaders of far too many African countries,are not amused.
Getting back to the subject of glabal warming - there have been, in the history of the earth, other periods, long before the industrial revolution,, when the temperature of the earth has risen and periods when it cooled down.
Also there are many natural phenomena contributing to pollution, such as volcanoes, forest fires and so on. How do you calculate the amount of pollution that each produces?
When Krakatoa erupted back in the 1800's there was a period of 3 years of terrible summers and crop failures. That was just one volcano.
So although mankind is adding to the pollution of the earth, we cannot calculate how much, and we have to take into consideration the economic cost to each nation of complying with regulations dreamed up by the same people who get the weather wrong every week. |
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element105
Joined: 14 Jun 2004 Posts: 518 Location: Tsingtao,China
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Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:10 am Post subject: |
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Really?Let's see something together
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Global Warming
Causes of climate change involve any process that can alter the global energy balance between energy coming from the Sun and energy leaving the Earth. There are many natural causes of climate change, but recently we have become concerned with the effect mankind's pollution of the atmosphere may be having on the global climate.
The Earth has a natural greenhouse effect which keeps it much warmer that it would be without an atmosphere. Greenhouse gases in the atmosphere trap infrared heat energy trying to escape back to space. In doing so they raise the temperature of the lower atmosphere and the Earth's surface in contact with it. During the last 200 years, mankind has been releasing substantial quantities of extra greenhouse gases to the atmosphere, through the burning of fossil fuels and deforestation. These extra gases are trapping more heat in the atmosphere, and it is now suspected that the observed warming of the Earth by about 0.6�C since the late 19th century is due to this man-made enhancement of the natural greenhouse effect.
This climatic trend has become known as "global warming", and may be distinguished from historical and prehistorical climate changes that have occurred naturally. The term "global warming" is usually reserved for the observed global climate change during the last 100 to 150 years that is believed to be related to mankind's enhancement of the greenhouse effect. |
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