Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[jonaid]

But, please, let's not get into this subject. I don't want to talk about details of Islamic rules. Because you seem to be judging Islam through some general matters and issues. It's easy to just set there and misquote verses to bash any religion. So, to really understand Islam let's talk about the truth of Islam.

Let's answer this question. "Who is the creator of islam? Is it Muhammad or God? ". My answer is clearly God. And I think that by saying Muhammad is the creator or inventor (as you said) of Islam puts you in "deep water". This statement is not backed by any real evidence or historical facts. And I'll run by some points that justify my answer: (and deal with it if you can ).
1) Muhammad spent forty years of his life before he starts his mission as a messenger of god as an unlettered man. So, how did he come up with this book that challenged the Arabs who used to be pioneers in eloquence and literature.
2) During the twenty three years that took the Qur'an to be completed. You can not, and I mean you CAN NOT find any contradiction in it. You can't even find any change in the style of it.
3) The scientific miracles of the holy Qur'an :
- The human embryonic development. God says: "And indeed we created man (Adam) out of an extract of clay. * Thereafter we made him (the offspring of Adam) as a 'Notfa' (mixed drops of male and female sexual discharge and lodged it) in a safe lodging (womb of the woman). * then we made the 'Notfa' into a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood), then we made the clot into a little lump of flesh, then we made out of that little lump of flesh bones, then we clothed the bones with flesh ('Laham: muscles and flesh), and then we brought it forth as another creation. So, blessed is God, the best of creators". [23 : 12-14]
- The motion of the space objects. God says: "And the sun runs on its fixed course for a term (appointed). That is the decree of the all-mighty, the all-knowing. * And the moon we have measured for its mansions (to traverse) till it returns like the old dried curved date stalk. * It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor does the night outstrip the day. They all float, each in an orbit." [36 : 38-40]
- The mountains' role in stabilizing the crust of the earth. God says: "And he has affixed into the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you" [16 : 15 ]
- The origin of the universe and expansion of space. God says: "Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were joined together as one entity, then we parted them? And we have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" [21: 30].
God says: "With hands did we construct the heaven. Verily, we are able to extend the vastness of space thereof." [ 51 : 47 ]

This is just a sample of lots of miracles that you can find in Qur'an. You can look up for more miracles in Muhammad's sayings as well.
I don't believe that a man from the seventh century can know something that modern science didn't know until the late centuries! Knowing these facts require someone bigger than humans. Someone who is all-knower of the unseen. Someone who is the real creator of everything, God.

Can you now expand on your answer about Muhammad being the creator of Islam?

Good luck to you all

_________________
Nothing in this world is to be feared of... Only understood. [marie curie]

[alsheres]

I am not going to argue with you friend.
Just ask yourself:
which is the most wide spresd religion in the west and among the the highly educated people?
I know you will be fair with yourself and know the answer is Islam.
then ask yourself WHY?
-----------------
Why do they prefer Islam? Why Armestrong? Why Cat Stevens?
Why others among the richest and cultured people refugee to a religion while the nation of Islam is not strong in power or economy?
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the answer because they found truth and relief. they found true belief.

[bluesapphire]

What is the problems with all of you?
Why do you like to critic others religion?
How do you feel when somebody critize your religion?
Do you think that Islam is not as good as other religion in the world?
To me if YOU people keep on doing this, it will only start another war.I had a lot of muslim friend and I can get along very well with them. I think the problem with all the people who critize other reliogion is that they had been brainwash with all those lies that other had been spreading. So, if you want to prevent another world war, PLEASE change your mindset that every religion is as good as others. Do you know that it is a sin to critc others? And if you doesn't want to go to hell, PLEASE STOP DOING ALL THIS NONSENSE. Get to know something before you can really say anything about it. I recommend you to take up Islamic Studies before you can commend on it. I'm here to spread WORLD PEACE, so please follow my advise ...........the choice is yours........

[a_muslim_guy]

islam is not the problem , read my posts in the topic "islam , and evel relegion" .

islam is the true relegion , i'm not saying that because i'm muslim only , but because i've a proof.

there is no reletion between the bible and science, there is no reletion between jew's book and science , ... BUT there is relations between Koran and science ... and here is a book talking about that ..
This is the link ...
http://www.sultan.org/articles/QScience.html

read the book , just read it , i'm not asking you to be muslims , just read the book.
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C++ Programmer

[sophion]

[a_muslim_guy]

HAHAHAHAHA !!!!
The book doesn't talk about this at all !! the book talks about a diffrant topic , that means that you didn't read it , and i've just put this post how can you read the book in 5 mins ?!

if you mean Koran then tell me which part of Koran that says that ?
_________________
C++ Programmer

[a_muslim_guy]

here is the link of the book again ..

http://www.sultan.org/articles/QScience.html

this is not the Quran , this is a book talking about Quran , read it , you didn't read it before.
_________________
C++ Programmer

[a_muslim_guy]

[scipio]

The problem is you cant drink beer or wine, and i really like bacon mmmmm, but these crazy people wont let u eat it.

And if you r muslim you have to dress like a women.

But maybye it would be cool to have lots of wives and treat them like slaves lol.
_________________
Choo Choo

[a_muslim_guy]

[isalm_spirit]

ok....hi

we r now against 2 limbs of very hard equation........and u have to recognize that.....how??

1_the writer of the topic got some words of the qouran and from sonna that showed the islam as criminal ....right?? (it is the 1st limb of equation).

2_on the other hand ..... we can find obviously wonderful thing.......alot of western people _who heard that talk about women and and and _join the islam everyday>>>not poor ppl only....not ignorant but from famous scientists.......all of them joined islam although they heard the words u said sophion and more than them. (2nd limb)

can anybody solve these equation.........let me help.

the only solution 4 these equation........that the words u got sophion is not the whole truth........deficient mean .......so when these new muslims know the right they joined islam without mini hesitation.

only .... u talk ur information from ur priests .....who cover alot of facts about islam.

let me give example ......when u talk about the islam that order the muslims 2 kill who fight them .....u forgot two things:

1_ that the qouran himself say in another place ......besm ellah (And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say, "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our God and your God is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam)." (29:46))
-and u forgot ....besm allah (Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. (2:190))
_and ......besm allah (But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). (8:61))

u forgot these all intentonal or without only to give ablack image about islam.

2_u forgot many things in ur book said what is more ugly.....
_jesus said (Lk:19:27: 27 اما اعدائي اولئك الذين لم يريدوا ان املك عليهم فأتوا بهم الى هنا واذبحوهم قدامي (SVD))
_ur god said (MT:10:34 لا تظنوا اني جئت لألقي سلاما على الارض.ما جئت لألقي سلاما بل سيفا.)
_ur good god said (Jos:6:21: 21 وحرّموا كل ما في المدينة من رجل وامرأة من طفل وشيخ حتى البقر والغنم والحمير بحد السيف. (SVD))
_ur nice god said ( Ez:9:6الشيخ والشاب والعذراء والطفل والنساء اقتلوا للهلاك.ولا تقربوا من انسان عليه السمة وابتدئوا من مقدسي.فابتدأوا بالرجال الشيوخ الذين امام البيت. (SVD)
)

is that enough.................wanna more???

u can now know y they leave christianety 2 islam .......and y is islam the most spreadable religion around the world.......inspite the words u said and they said.

because they gave themeslfes the chance 2 know the truth wholly ....not apart.....not to take the words sais and run.

[isalm_spirit]

another example about alot of mistakes u did to reach to the false truth:

u said (Quran 4.11 "Allah (thus) directs you as regards your Children's (Inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females...")

ok ....by using the same method

1_u forgote to say that islam said so

_in the name of allah (on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and God brings about through it a great deal of good. (4:19))

_and allah sayed about the stupid men be4 islam who killed their babies f they r girl (When news is brought to one of them, of (the birth of) a female (child), his face darkens, and he is filled with inward grief! (16:5

With shame does he hide himself from his people, because of the bad news he has had! Shall he retain it on (sufferance and) contempt, or bury it in the dust? Ah! what an evil (choice) they decide on? (16:59))

_and our god say (O mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, His mate, and from them twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and women;- reverence God, through whom ye demand your mutual (rights), and (reverence) the wombs (That bore you): for God ever watches over you. (4:1))

_in the name of god (O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of God is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And God has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things). (49:13))

these is the woman in islam......our halves......they have the same we have in every ting.
let us see her in christianity:

2_u forgot that ......(1Cor:14:34: 34. لتصمت نساؤكم في الكنائس لأنه ليس مأذونا لهنّ أن يتكلمن بل يخضعن كما يقول الناموس أيضا. (SVD))

_(1Cor:14:35: 35 ولكن أن كنّ يردن أن يتعلمن شيئا فليسألن رجالهنّ في البيت لأنه قبيح بالنساء أن تتكلم في كنيسة)

_Eph:5:24: 24 ولكن كما تخضع الكنيسة للمسيح كذلك النساء لرجالهنّ في كل شيء. (SVD)

_1Pt:3:5 فانه هكذا كانت قديما النساء القديسات أيضا المتوكلات على الله يزيّن أنفسهن خاضعات لرجالهن


_Zec:5:7: 7 وإذا بوزنة رصاص رفعت.وكانت امرأة جالسة في وسط الايفة. (SVD)

Zec:5:8: 8 فقال هذه هي الشر.فطرحها إلى وسط الايفة وطرح ثقل الرصاص على فمها. (SVD)





i can talk alot about that>

i wish that i could help u to solve the hard equation .....y scientists join islam while they heard about what u said and the black pic u gave.

[isalm_spirit]

[isalm_spirit]

sorry ...f my english is bad.

i cannot make best than that with english.

it is not my language.

best wishes
_________________

[admiral]

hey islam_spirit, I admire you for your strong belief, my friend. Happy new year.
_________________
If I say "I love you" to someone, then I also have to say "I love inside you everyone else. I love the whole world because of you. I also love myself inside you"