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wendy_kb8
Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 33
Location: Shanghai,China
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 Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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hey mookis,why do u say so?
r u kidding???? |
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element105
Joined: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 518
Location: Tsingtao,China
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 2:29 am Post subject: |
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| stellara wrote: |
i've heard a reportage of the a-bomb launch in hiroshima, where the pilot or whoever has actually dropped it, has said that he doesn't regret it at all. can you imagine that? he knew there where hundred thousands of innocent people in the town and he dropped it anyway..
okay, maybe he was convinced with arguments like "we have to stop this war" "see what they've done in pearl harbour" etc. but he hasn't changed his opinion later. |
I pretty much understand them,the pilot and the abombthrower.Yeah,their abombs killed 200 thousands Japanese,on the other hand however,their abombs saved more than ten times of Chinese,Koreans,Filipinos...etc. who lived on the occupied land that time and most potentially would have get executed by unsurrendered japanese armies,so compare with the latter,Americans did not bad that to decided nuke Japan,infact it was the only way to save other people. |
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stellara
Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 583
Location: germany
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 9:06 am Post subject: |
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in that way i may understand him too, but i remember he said he didn't regret killing japanese people, just because they're japanese and opponents in the war. he didn't say something like he'd regret killing them but it had to be because of...
and what about all these people who died or were hurt by testing abombs? they count too, don't they?
| Bob S. wrote: |
If it's any consolation, they are not, and they haven't (yet).
Think about it. Since Nagasaki, the world's nations have collectively built over 20,000 atomic and nuclear weapon and exploded over 500 of them. But in the past 60 years since the end of WWII, none have been used in anger against an enemy's territory. Cooler heads have prevailed so far. |
that's cold comfort..
you're right they haven't pressed the button yet. but it wasn't as if they - or some of them - didn't want to, they would have oressed it if they were provoked. and that's why i'm worried. in all these conflicts of the cold war, there was mostly only such a little thing that prevented a nuclear war.
what worries me, is that they have built so many abombs at all. the point of using them will come anyway.
so that's the dark side of Einsteins ingenious mind.. if he hadn't developed his theory of relativity the abomb couldn't have been built.. but we wouldn't have many other things without it anyway..
greets 
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element105
Joined: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 518
Location: Tsingtao,China
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:56 am Post subject: |
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They don't want to feel guilty or sorry about that,actually they shouldn't have such emotions at all,in my opinion,they had no choice but doing according to their command which had been set down to save lives of human beings,they were the justicial forces,acting in behalf of most people that time.  |
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stellara
Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 583
Location: germany
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:17 am Post subject: |
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i don't see it that way..
i still believe that there would have been another way to end this war without killing so many people. i have to believe, because if there weren't another way then where's the world gone to?! if we can't end a war like this in any other way than to drop two nuclear bombs then i don't want to be here anymore when the next big (world) war starts..
... greets 
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element105
Joined: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 518
Location: Tsingtao,China
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:04 am Post subject: |
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Yeah,as you expected there was another way to end that war without dropping abombs that I remember americans used to discussed when abomb had not get ready,feel free to correct me if I remember wrong,it was expected the U.S. armies to land on honshu by landing crafts from south,the Soviet armies to do so from north,then with the help of airforce destroyed every inch of resistance,the japanese emperor had declared publicly to its citizens that would rather take 100 millions death(the whole japanese population,also meant all to die,don't underestimate mind control of bushido) to defeat the alliances,and then the oversea japanese armies who can't be sent back would execute everything(to kill innocents as many as they could) their chief commanded them of,thus,more and more,much more than 200 thousands people(citizens of China,Korea,Japan...,soldiers of both allied and axis...) would have died,at last,when the last resister on japanese island died,the war would be over.I think it's more terrible than using abomb,what do you think?  & |
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Bob S.
Joined: 29 Apr 2004
Posts: 1767
Location: So. Cal
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| element105 wrote: |
| ...,feel free to correct me if I remember wrong,it was expected the U.S. armies to land on honshu by landing crafts from south,the Soviet armies to do so from north...,the japanese emperor had declared publicly to its citizens that would rather take 100 millions death(the whole japanese population,also meant all to die,don't underestimate mind control of bushido) to defeat the alliances,... |
Yeah, that's pretty close to the alternate scenario without the bomb.
The U.S. army and navy was readying an invasion of Kyushu, and when that was finished, on to Honshu.
One little detail, it was not the emperor but the prime minister that said the 100 million deaths thing.
From Debate on Dropping the Atomic Bomb, article "The Great Atomic Bomb Debate" by Bryan McNulty,
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The April 1945 U.S. invasion of Okinawa spelled the collapse of Premier General Hideki Tojo's government. His replacement, Admiral Kantaro Suzuki, told the Japanese Cabinet in June 1945 that thousands of kamikaze pilots would fly against enemy ships even in training planes, that millions of soldiers would fight what was called the "Decisive Battle" by suicide banzai charges, and that civilians would strap on explosives and throw themselves under enemy tanks.
To secure the approval of senior Army officials to his accession to premier, Suzuki affirmed that Japan's only course was to "fight to the very end" even if it meant the death of 100 million Japanese.. |
Given at the time that the lingering effects of radiation poisoning were not well known, the atomic bomb was regarded as just a more efficient means of fire bombing cities which was already being done all over Japan. If you were to see photos of Tokyo, Osaka, Yokohama, or Nagoya at the time, they would've looked the same as Hiroshima.
The men ruling the Empire of Japan at the time were some of the worst monsters ever produced by an industrialized nation. They saw nothing wrong with sacrificing millions of their own people for their own glory and honor. (Heck, these men actually invented the idea of fire bombing cities which they did to Shanghai in 1937.) As long as they had any say, there was going to be no surrender. As bad as the atomic bomb was, it was the far lesser of two horrifically evil options. |
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6platinum
Joined: 18 Aug 2005
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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war! it's makes me soooooooo mad! 
sorry. Do u really know HOW MANY fallen heroes there have been? i have seen at least a hundred! maybe 50. or less. i dunno. it's just too many! and it's all bush's fault!!! i think! uhg. i have some much to say about this. i think this is gonna be world war 3. which is HORRIBLE! |
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stellara
Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 583
Location: germany
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:36 am Post subject: |
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no it's surely not all bush's fault. you normally need two sides to create a war.. 
ookay it seems that i have extremely underestimated the cruelty of humans.. this alternative is even more horrible, you're right. oh god..
| element105 wrote: |
| don't underestimate mind control of bushido |
that's this extended samurai code, right? with hara-kiri, kamikaze, seppuku and so on? can you tell me something more about it?
greets--
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stellara
Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 583
Location: germany
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:15 am Post subject: |
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| Mr.Admiral wrote: |
| I really think that the presidents are not that stupid to throw all their A-bombs together... |
Do you? hm.. i thought too, that a president of a certain state can never be so stupid to begin a war due to finding non-existent weapons - which was quite obviously after all.
so, after that i don't really know what to believe on that issue..
greets
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6platinum
Joined: 18 Aug 2005
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| stellara wrote: |
| Mr.Admiral wrote: |
| China should have infinite money and at least 50 atomic-bombs |
oooh, you're optimistic! a newspaper wrote about the a-bomb distribution over the world, as far as it's known.
there are at least 22 000 nuclear weapons in the world.
USA holds about the half, 10 656 war heads.
Then comes Russia with 10 000 war heads.
China has a lot more than fifty, namely 402 nuclear weapons.
France has got 348.
Israel has got about 200.
Britain has got 185 nuclear war heads.
Pakistan and India have between 30 and 40 or 50 nuclear war heads each.
north korea has at least one a-bomb,
and what Iran hides is still open, but it's really likely that it has got one or more.
so if you say, the USA and Britain are allies there are together more than the half of all nuclear weapons on one side, at least.
it's anyway astonishing - and of course a luck - that so far no terrorists could have built a real nuclear bomb.
so, consider this when you worry about a third world war in 2006. if it's for real, then we don't have to worry about oil or the climate anymore..
greets |
wow. y do we even have that many nuclear bombs? we don't even need them! otherwise it would like destroy the whole world! |
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stellara
Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 583
Location: germany
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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that's the problem with it..
it was that classical situation in the cold war i think. one nation has built the first abomb, the rival nation has noticed and built one itself to protect itself then the next nation has built on to get ahead and so on.. suddenly there were 22 000 nuclear weapons in the world 
greets
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6platinum
Joined: 18 Aug 2005
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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exactly!
it's totaly HORRIBLE! |
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stellara
Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 583
Location: germany
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:02 am Post subject: |
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yeah, could be..
| Mr.Admiral wrote: |
| So, on the other hand, perhaps the world could be much safer if every country has so many a-bombs. |
more likely, the world would be much much safer with no nuclear weapons at all in any country..  but that's probably unthinkable in the current situation - what a shame..
greets
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Don't cry because it's over - smile because it happened!
MOKEY ROCKS!!! |
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element105
Joined: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 518
Location: Tsingtao,China
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:26 am Post subject: |
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| Hi Mr.Admiral,how's you hollidays? |
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