Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[tri]

'they stared at me as if i was (were) crazy' - they stared at me like i was crazy..they could not believe what i had said or done or looked like..

She told them that she had just seen a UFO.
They stared at her as if she was crazy. lol

[wing]

[iitimone7]

someone is looking at you as if you were crazy, whether it is a true statement or not. it's the same as 'he thought i was out of my mind for saying something in the meeting against that other person.'

does that help? iitimone7

[iitimone7]

...was nobody...

nobody is considered to be one unit (that is mad up of many). use the singular verb with nobody. stick with what Cambridge says about was. it sounds odd, but you'll get used to it. if you don't like it, say it a different way so that you don't have to use that form.

iitimone7

[asterix]

[wing]

[asterix]

I've never heard of the Cambridge dictionary. I think the Oxford Dictionary is supposed to be the standard but Webster's is popular in the USA and Collins publish some decent ones in many languages.

[wing]

You can take a look if you are interested.
http://dictionary.cambridge.org
I've tried some of those, but they're not really suitable for me as I like very much the one with plenty of examples.
_________________
Go where you wanna go; Do what you wanna do; With whoever you wanna do it with ---Mamas & Papas

[asterix]

Here's what Strunk and White's The Elements of Style says under Misused words and expressions
Like - Not to be used for the conjunction as. Like governs nouns and pronouns; before phrases and clauses the equivalent word is as.

e.g. wrong We spent the evening like in the old days.
correct We spent the evening as in the old days.

Wrong Chloe smells good like a pretty girl should.
Right Chloe smells good as a pretty girl should.

[wing]

?! I'll repeat. They're not really suitable for me because (as) I like very much the one with plenty of examples.
_________________
Go where you wanna go; Do what you wanna do; With whoever you wanna do it with ---Mamas & Papas

[asterix]

I am not criticising the Cambridge Dictionary. (Apart from the fact that it is not, as the name would suggest, connected to Cambridge University in the UK).
Feel free to mutilate the language in any way that pleases you. It is, however, a good idea to know how the language should be spoken by literate people.

[bud]

But c'mon, Asterix. That is a mistake that many literate people make. Maybe it's a U.S. cultural thing, but I don't know many people that I imagine would worry about saying like where the grammarians say that as should be used. Maybe that indifference was caused by the old cigarette commercial that ran for years: "Winston tastes good like a - [clap, clap] - cigarette should!" Or maybe the ad was a reflection of the existing general indifference about the issue.

[asterix]

Bud, it seems to me that you are a very kind-hearted and generous man. I admire your work here and the way you encourage the students.
I know that in the USA, and everywhere in the English-speaking world you will hear atrocious grammar spoken every day.
I don't think we should be proud of it (and I'm not suggesting you are proud of it).
English is a constantly changing language, maybe because it is spoken in places so far distant from each other: Australia, New Zealand, USA, South Africa, India, Canada, etc.
Learning English is a place where foreign students, many of whom, are, were, or will be in university, come to get a helping hand.
Many of them come from China, where the universities expect a very high standard from their students, so I think it is important that they learn the correct way.
At the moment, for example, a fairly large percentage of the people in the United States seem to think that you "axe" somebody a question. No doubt, sooner or later, there will be a suggestion that this ought to be acceptable.
On the other forums, such as Current Affairs, I enjoy seeing these guys teeing off on each other, and I usually try to keep my mouth shut about any errors, although I confess I have my pet hates, such as u r for you are, i for I, etc..

[bud]

Thank you, Asterix. I have a very high opinion of your work in here, too - always well-written and concise! I've learned a lot from you.

First of all, I write about English from what I've learned and how I hear it spoken. I don't know what is required of an English student in a formal setting, so I can't focus my answers toward that. I think that when I don't feel that I'm on solid ground, though, I do qualify my answers. I hope that comes through.

I share your annoyance with most of the things you mentioned, but for some of them, maybe not to the same degree. I have no problem with u r in a chat room, but in a forum (not real time) there is no need to try to save a second or two. Still, I'll usually let it go in here because people get in the habit of writing that way on their computers. The question asked is usually more interesting to respond to.

It bugs me to no end to see there instead of their, or axe instead of ask, etc. There are certainly rules that I consider a must. One quirk I've always hated is hearing nuclear pronounced as "NEW-cue-ler." It surprised me to hear a linguist on the radio defend that as correct a year or so ago. Her reason was that it is regional dialect. I wonder if she would say that axe is ok?

My philosophy is much more on the linguist side than the grammarian side. I think most linguists would say that grammar is descriptive, not prescriptive. If a large segment of the population uses something that a grammar book says is wrong, then to me, the grammar books is wrong or out of date. A grammar book is no different than a dictionary in that way: they describe English as people use it.

If language wasn't allowed to change, to adapt to the times, then wouldn't it be a dead language? Wouldn't we still say, "Fare thee well" instead of "Farewell" at one point, and later just "Take care?" Wouldn't we be using "thou" and "thine?" I wonder how some people felt when others started saying "you?"

I have not been able to figure out where the dividing line is for me, though. When is it ok to "break" a "grammar rule," and when isn't it? I don't know, I only know it case by case. Any insight from you and others would be appreciated.

By the way, I've always wondered - are you an English teacher, or instead a very proficient and caring speaker?

[asterix]

I'm just an average guy, but I like languages.
I'm impressed with the high standard that most of these participants have achieved.
Also, this is fun!