Site Search:
 
Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums Forum Index Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

sexism
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Opinions
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
RedRose



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2735
Location: GuangZhou, China

PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:02 am    Post subject: sexism Reply with quote

what do you think about sexism? do you think it is normal? can you stand it?

I definitely can't.

I can't stand sexism under any circumstance and any society. I think sexism is a sign of a raw society. the more advanced a society is, the less sexism it has.

You are welcome to utter your viewpoints.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hayde



Joined: 23 Oct 2005
Posts: 177
Location: Icheon, Korea

PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sexism is stupid, and holds the human race back. Imagine how more advanced the human race would be if women had been allowed to be educated and add to our knowledge throughout history. Women were only really allowed to start (in the West atleast) in the past century (and maybe a little in the 1800's). There were exceptions ofcourse. Considering that 50% of the population in the past didn't go to university or weren't able to be scientists, doctors, etc., I wonder if we would be twice as advanced as we are now! That is just the practical side of the question. There is also the human side where sexism is just morally wrong on so many levels too.
_________________
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.
Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
element105



Joined: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 518
Location: Tsingtao,China

PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't want to adopt this word "sexism",but none of us could deny that there truely are things physically different between male and female though the spirit maybe same.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
RedRose



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2735
Location: GuangZhou, China

PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hayde wrote:
Sexism is stupid, and holds the human race back. Imagine how more advanced the human race would be if women had been allowed to be educated and add to our knowledge throughout history. Women were only really allowed to start (in the West atleast) in the past century (and maybe a little in the 1800's). There were exceptions ofcourse. Considering that 50% of the population in the past didn't go to university or weren't able to be scientists, doctors, etc., I wonder if we would be twice as advanced as we are now! That is just the practical side of the question. There is also the human side where sexism is just morally wrong on so many levels too.


I totally agree with you!!

Yeah, sexism is very stupid. in the past, most women couldn't receive good education, and they could just engage in some homework. and as is well known, in general, women are as smart as men. why couldn't they contribute their wits to the whole human being? they just didn't have chance!! I mean, most women, in the past especially.

element105 wrote:
I don't want to adopt this word "sexism",but none of us could deny that there truely are things physically different between male and female though the spirit maybe same.


women are kinda different from men, mentally and physically. but that can't prove sexism should be normal or reasonable. women can produce babies, so women produce babies, men don't have to do it. and men are more physically stronger than women, so most cargador are men. but that's not sexism.

When I mention the word sexism, I mean, some discriminations towards women. for example, in China's rural countries, basically, less girls can receive educations than boys. and in cities, it is harder for female university graduate students to find a job than male graduate students. that's soooo stupid!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
element105



Joined: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 518
Location: Tsingtao,China

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People think son could pass the family descent down,especially the family name.
But I doubt that female graduate to find a job is harder than male.Because in my city,I can see the status is right on the contrary.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Hayde



Joined: 23 Oct 2005
Posts: 177
Location: Icheon, Korea

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I don't know where you are talking about element105, and you might be right, I do have to say I doubt it. But that is just my opinion, and I could very well be wrong. But most men don't see it, or they do but they think it is so small it's not worth it. But in America and Canada, women are still paid less and work more hours than men (I don't have a study, but I have read this too many times not to believe it in American, Canadian, Japanese and British newspapers)
Don't get me wrong, it is getting better, and I am not a feminist. I actually think feminists are usually pretty useless because what they do usually hurts womens' rights and views. They are too extremist. But it still exists, even in so much as buying your daughter a barbie doll while buying your son a video game and lego.

*** Offtopic - Lego is the best toy in the world
_________________
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.
Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RedRose



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2735
Location: GuangZhou, China

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

element105 wrote:
People think son could pass the family descent down,especially the family name.


to speak of inheriting family name, IMHO, it is totally man-made. and it can also reflect the existance of sexism, but it still can't prove sexism is right.

element105 wrote:
But I doubt that female graduate to find a job is harder than male.Because in my city,I can see the status is right on the contrary.


NO!! female graduates have less opportunities than male ones!! many companies think that female graduates would get involved into housework soon after they get married. and that must distract them from work. but men seldom get involved into these things. that's why.

Again, sexism is a sign of raw society. and it is very unfair and stupid.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
stellara



Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 583
Location: germany

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sexism is really stupid, you're right. but you can't forget that sexism goes both sides, there can also be discrimination for men. if you reduce a man just to his physical strength, it's the same sexism as if you'd reduce a woman to boobs and ass.

a man is still seen as *beep* if he stays at home and cares for the children and the home while his wife goes to work and makes money. for me that's the same as if a woman is discriminated when she gets no job because she's a woman and could get pregnant.. Rolling Eyes

but i've seen many women who really know how to use this sexism to their advantage, so you can't really speak of sexism here.
for example, a woman is really powerful when it comes to the question of sexism. she can easily allege something, maybe that her boss said/did sth sexist, and if there are no witnesses nobody can prove the opposite, even if she lies. same with sexual harassment, women can easily destroy a man's career/life with such an allegation.

just think about it. Wink
greets
_________________
Don't cry because it's over - smile because it happened!

MOKEY ROCKS!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
RedRose



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2735
Location: GuangZhou, China

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stellara wrote:
sexism is really stupid, you're right. but you can't forget that sexism goes both sides, there can also be discrimination for men. if you reduce a man just to his physical strength, it's the same sexism as if you'd reduce a woman to boobs and ass.


I never reduce any man to his physical strength. physical strength isn't a weakness I think. I just took an example to prove men are physically different from women.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
stellara



Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 583
Location: germany

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i didn't meant it as a weakness. what i meant is difficult to explain - i hoped you'd understand it right away Wink but i'll try.
for example, if you have two exercises to give a man or a woman, and the first is to, whatever, exchange a car wheel, and the second is to cook a five-course-menu, you'd probably say, the woman should cook, and the man should exchange the wheels. but it's then not only a discrimination against the woman (because you believe she can't exchange a wheel) but also one against the man (because you assume he can't cook a five-course-menu). you see what i mean?
greets Very Happy
_________________
Don't cry because it's over - smile because it happened!

MOKEY ROCKS!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Hayde



Joined: 23 Oct 2005
Posts: 177
Location: Icheon, Korea

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have to be careful with sexism against men. FIRST, I am in no way comparing the amount of sexism of men to women Smile
In Canada, one of the provincial governments (I forget which one) sent out a memo telling all their offices not to hire white men for awhile. That way more women and minorities can be added to the workforce. But that is blatant discrimination (racism and sexism). We must fix all the problems but make sure not to go to far and create new ones. They changed the memo very quickly when it went into the newspaper.
BTW, I swear, sometimes the Canadian government has to be on drugs...
_________________
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.
Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RedRose



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2735
Location: GuangZhou, China

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stellara wrote:
i didn't meant it as a weakness. what i meant is difficult to explain - i hoped you'd understand it right away Wink but i'll try.
for example, if you have two exercises to give a man or a woman, and the first is to, whatever, exchange a car wheel, and the second is to cook a five-course-menu, you'd probably say, the woman should cook, and the man should exchange the wheels. but it's then not only a discrimination against the woman (because you believe she can't exchange a wheel) but also one against the man (because you assume he can't cook a five-course-menu). you see what i mean?
greets Very Happy


I see what you mean.

Referring to women who really know how to use this sexism to their advantage as you said, I think it would be another topic that we should open another thread to discuss about. some women are really tricky. but that's not the point I was gonna emphasize on the thread.

Here what I emphasize is, simply, sexism----> some discrimination towards women. and it really exists. very stupid. In China, many women still suffer from sexism. my aunt(my mom's younger sister), had to quit school at age of 9, because her little brother(the only boy of my grandparents) was born, and my grandma forced my aunt to quit school in order to take care of her little brother. she had to. later she became almost an illiterary, but my uncle, that little boy, finally attended a famous university. that's definitely stupid!! I once asked her:"are you mad at my grandma for what she did to you? I mean, quitting thing". she said:"no, she had no choice at that moment. she was busy with farm things, I was the only one who could take care of my brother." OMG!!! I couldn't believe what she said!! she should be angry!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lorikeet



Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 1877
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hayde wrote:

Don't get me wrong, it is getting better, and I am not a feminist. I actually think feminists are usually pretty useless because what they do usually hurts womens' rights and views. They are too extremist.


Ah, sorry you feel that way, Hayde. Feminism covers a wide range of people. I consider myself a feminist, because I believe in the equality of men and women. Sexism is sexism, whether applied to men or women. Back when I was a kid (I'm almost 60, so this goes back aways!) there were other expectations for women in the U.S. I was lucky my parents thought that I should go to college. Some parents didn't think it was important for a girl. Some girls just went to college to find a husband. There were no women working as fire fighters, bus drivers or construction workers, and on the TV news all you saw were white men. There were very few men who worked as nurses or childcare workers, and if they did they were looked at as failures. While there is still discrimination nowadays, things are much better. I believe it is the women's movement that brought up a lot of the ideas and made them accepted in the culture as a whole. Just for the record, I married a man who was a widower with a five-year-old child. He stayed home and took care of the kid, and later the other two kids we had, while I worked. It worked great for us because he enjoyed that and I enjoyed teaching.

Whoops! I guess Hayde pushed a button! (That is an idiom that means Hayde said something that made me want to answer because it is an important thing to me.) Hope you all understand what I wrote. Ask me if you don't.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Hayde



Joined: 23 Oct 2005
Posts: 177
Location: Icheon, Korea

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think our view of feminists are different. Anyone I have ever met who called themselves a feminist has always been on the extreme. I am generalizing, but I am just going from the people I have met (American, Canadian, and British). To be honest, anyone who has ever mentioned they were "something" in a conversation without a question posed to them tended to overdo things (vegetarians, feminists, christians, Canadians, etc.)
I see feminists as extreme. I had a couple of "Feminist" friends before. They were always talking about how "men" are bad. At first I liked them, but I couldn't stay around them, obviously.
My mother was a manager for about 50 apartment buildings in Toronto in the 70's. Her name is Christine, but she always went by Chris. Any guesses why? If she went to a meeting, it would be her and 200 men. She said so many men were absolutely shocked she was a woman when she met them for the first time. I still don't know how my mother managed it, but she did, luckily for me. The scary thing is she still goes by Chris. She can't imagine anything else anymore, even though she doesn't work now...
Obviously I am totally for equality of everyone (women and men) so it's not our views that are different Lorikeet just our definition of the word Smile But if you don't agree, please let me know.
_________________
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.
Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RedRose



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2735
Location: GuangZhou, China

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lorikeet wrote:
Just for the record, I married a man who was a widower with a five-year-old child. He stayed home and took care of the kid, and later the other two kids we had, while I worked. It worked great for us because he enjoyed that and I enjoyed teaching.


Lorikeet, I guess you must have shared your parents' yelling and blaming, right? Good for you, Lorikeet! I wish I was as brave as you. you could marry whom you liked, under the pressures from parents and society, etc. I was so a coward compared with you. I married a guy that I didn't love. just because I could no more stand those huge pressures from parents and society. actually, when I got married, I even didn't have the plan to get married! imagine, 7 years ago, if I had merried a widower with a kid, what would my parents have done to me?? I even daren't imagine. but thank god! I got divorced one year after I got married. In order to get divorced, I had to run off from my homecity to my recent city. (sorry, my words are kinda off-topic, but I just have too much to say after reading Lorikeet's msg)

Lorikeet wrote:
Whoops! I guess Hayde pushed a button! (That is an idiom that means Hayde said something that made me want to answer because it is an important thing to me.) Hope you all understand what I wrote. Ask me if you don't.


Thank Hayde for pushing the button Very Happy by which we got to know a little more about Lorikeet. I think, on the forum, we should get to know about each other more. that will make the forum a family.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Opinions All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Dave's ESL Cafe is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Banner Advertising | Bookstore / Alta Books | FAQs | Articles | Interview with Dave
Copyright © 2018 Dave's ESL Cafe | All Rights Reserved | Contact Dave's ESL Cafe | Site Map

Teachers College, Columbia University: Train to Teach English Here or Abroad
SIT
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group