Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[Hiroaki Sone]

Hello. How are you?

a)

[1] A monkey of Kamikitazawa Forest ran away, and we still can't find him.

[2] The monkey of Kamikitazawa Forest ran away, and we still can't find him.

Suppose [2] is the first sentence, said out of the blue, or not preceded by any sentence, in an essay; that it is only natural that most of the readers do not know about the monkey; and that there had in fact been one monkey in the forest; would this sentence still sound odd? Would "the" require us to have pre-notion to define what monkey the author is talking about, even though there is "of Kamikitazawa Forest"?

b)

[3] Beaches of Sunshine Coast are sandy, and they are all beautiful. You may want to spend all day just basking in the sun, reading a book.

[4] The beaches of Sunshine Coast are sandy, and they are all beautiful. You may want to spend all day just basking in the sun, reading a book.

Now, if again these are not preceded by any sentence in an essay, which do you think is better. If both are used, depending on the situations they are used maybe, what is the difference in terms of perhaps whether one could mean all the beaches and the other some?

Answers:

[3] because this is regarding generic beaches on the Coast?

[3] again because "the beaches" in [4] raises a question of what beaches?

[4] because this is talking about the type of beaches on the Coast?

or

[3] and [4]

c)

English native speakers do not seem to just say, "I went to lakes in Scotland," but rather, "I went to the lakes in Scotland" when it is said, say, in the very beginning of an essay. How about non-geographical features, such as museums?

[5] I fully enjoyed my last trip to Chicago. I went to museums there.

[6] I fully enjoyed my last trip to Chicago. I went to the museums there.

d)

Just to check to see if I'm right, you most likely wouldn't say [7], would you?

[7] I climbed mountains near Florence in my recent visit to Europe.

[8] I climbed the mountains near Florence in my recent visit to Europe.

e)

While you would never say, "This is the doll I bought yesterday," you would say, "This is a doll I bought yesterday." However, wouldn't you use "the" form as in [10] if the modifier carries sufficient amount of information, as in "your local government ... alien"? Maybe there is a difference here?

[9] When applying to the office, you should submit the form with a document your local government might issue to confirm you are a legitimately registered alien.

[10] When applying to the office, you should submit the form with the document your local government might issue to confirm you are a legitimately registered alien.

Many thanks in advance.

Hiro/ Sendai, Japan

[JuanValdez]

Wow, long post. I'll try to answer as I read it, but if I get bored I might stop...

Question A:
You could use these two sentences out of the blue. If you hadn't an antecedent, then I would suggest sentence #1. They would not sound odd unless you were talking about something totally unrelated to monkeys, such as basketball. One more thing: I would say "monkey
from"

Question B:
I think #4 is better. However, #3 would not sound that unusual. Keep in mind a better construction would be "The beaches of Sunshine Coast are sandy and beautiful" or "All the beaches of S.C. are beautiful and sandy."
As far as a difference in meaning... No, I don't think there is a difference.

In response to your answers:
Answer 3: They aren't generic beaches because you defined them as beaches of Sunshine Coast.

Answer 3b: Again, you defined the beaches.

Answer 4: I don't follow.

In regards to the lakes in Scotland:
Yes, English speakers usually say "the..." in this circumstance. But, you don't need to say "the" if you're going to clarify shortly thereafter.
Example: I enjoyed my trip to Chicago. I went to museums there, including the Museum of Science and Industry and the Art Institute of Chicago.

7 & 8:
These two have slightly different meanings. #7 would be said to someone unfamiliar with the geography near Florence, while 8 would be said to someone familiar with the geography.
But like I said, only slightly different meanings.

9 & 10:
You would say "the document" if there was one specific document necessary, but you would say "a document" if there were different documents that served the same purpose.



Okay, now that I'm done. Phew.

Hope this clarifies the indefinite/definite articles a bit.

[Hiroaki Sone]

Hi, Juan.

Much obliged for your post. Very helpful, and informative at that.