Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[yeh0123]

Dear all,

I have a question about the word "nil"...

I just had my mid-term, and one of my mid-term question is to fill out the "Custom Declaration" form for entering the States. For the question "Number of family members traveling with you", I wrote "NIL" as I was assumed that I travelled alone. Here comes the problem.

My bossy teacher said that the word "NIL" only can be used as "ZERO" in sports games... She wants me to find the definition to show her that "NIL" can be used as "ZERO" excepting in sports games...


I believe that it's correct to write "NIL" on the form, but the teacher just cannot accept what the reality is. signs~~


Can anyone help me to find out where the proof is?Please~~
(I've searched Cambridge Online Dictionary, Raget's, Oxford...etc. BUT they only have examples for sports games.)

Many Thanks!!

[dabro]

[quote="yeh0123"]Dear all,

I have a question about the word "nil"...

I just had my mid-term, and one of my mid-term question is to fill out the "Custom Declaration" form for entering the States. For the question "Number of family members traveling with you", I wrote "NIL" as I was assumed that I travelled alone. Here comes the problem.

My bossy teacher said that the word "NIL" only can be used as "ZERO" in sports games... She wants me to find the definition to show her that "NIL" can be used as "ZERO" excepting in sports games...


I believe that it's correct to write "NIL" on the form, but the teacher just cannot accept what the reality is. signs~~


Can anyone help me to find out where the proof is?Please~~
(I've searched Cambridge Online Dictionary, Raget's, Oxford...etc. BUT they only have examples for sports games.)

Many Thanks!![/quote

"(I've searched Cambridge Online Dictionary, Raget's, Oxford...etc. BUT they only have examples for sports games.)"

Doesn't this support your teacher's contention? But there may be other possible uses. I found this on another discussion forum with a search at www.google.om

Having a single object 'nil' or a single method #isNil represent the very general concept of "absent" is probably not a good idea. Absent could mean:

Uninitialized (we have not yet reached the point we can initialize the variable, but the value will exist and must exist before we "read" the variable)
Inapplicable (the value does not apply to this object/method/etc.)
NotYetKnown (we should have some value, but we don't know it yet, OK to read/use)
NotEntered (UI variation on the above)
FunctionallyUncomputable ( transitively from a function involving (3) )
OutOfDomainBounds
NonFunctionalState
NoneFound (distinguished return value from a lookup)
...and so on...
Worse, some of these meanings are applicable in the same context. You could have a NotYetKnown that will transition to an Inapplicable, or a return value that could either be a NoneFound or an actual "value" of NotEntered. Overloading a single object for all of these purposes for "absent" would require serious mind-reading among all the developers and would not be very good engineering.

So, again, I believe that it would have been best to have constrained the language mechanism to isolate (1) from all the others. Instead, a very general 'nil' is used for (1), so it would be best to avoid using it for the rest. This may not always be convenient or acceptable. You certainly have to consider consistency with other parts of the system (and Smalltalk has a big built-in system). Of the other meanings for "absent", probably (2) and ( are the most common and least damaging.

Taking this a bit further, it would also be best to have a distinct standard, idiom, or pattern (meaning general to most languages) to handle each of the different meanings. A good example is the at:ifAbsent: methods that avoided the problem of a distinguishing return value by having the caller provide the behavior for a NoneFound ( in an absent-block. Using different distinguishing values (preferably within the domain of the type itself: such as a NotEnteredPoint) would seem to be a minimal good-design approach.

The topic of missing information is one of the hotbeds in information modeling (and specifically relational modeling). For a very different and generally more in depth discussion people may want to also read the works of Date, McGoveran, Codd, etc.
_________________
If a man constantly aspires is he not elevated?
Henry David Thoreau


Peace,

David

[yeh0123]

Thanks for the prompt information!!

I am not sure if my teacher would accept this or not. Obviously, she insists that NIL can only be used as ZERO in sports games...

I printed out lots of information showing that NIL=ZERO, but she just goes her way... asking me if I can show her another example for NIL=ZERO not for sports games....GEEEE!!!

I've been travelling alone to the States for more than 10 times, and I always fill out the form without any problem... I just don't understand why my teacher is soooo dull...

[lotus]

Hi yeh0123,

Your teacher was correct. The difference is between "none" and "nothing". Nil is closer to "nothing."

We say, "The score was 10 to nothing (nil)."
We say, "None of the soccer players were injured."

We say, "I travel alone, none of my family members traveled with me."

When a person or form asks you "How many family members are traveling with you?", you answer is "none, one, two, etc."

The question is actually, "How many people (plural) are traveling with you?" Your answer is actually "none of them." We don't say "nil" of them or "nothing" of them. You'll often see forms containing these types questions using answer fields of "none", "1", "2", etc.


--lotus


I have a question about the word "nil"...

I just had my mid-term, and one of my mid-term question is to fill out the "Custom Declaration" form for entering the States. For the question "Number of family members traveling with you", I wrote "NIL" as I was assumed that I travelled alone. Here comes the problem.

My bossy teacher said that the word "NIL" only can be used as "ZERO" in sports games... She wants me to find the definition to show her that "NIL" can be used as "ZERO" excepting in sports games...


I believe that it's correct to write "NIL" on the form, but the teacher just cannot accept what the reality is. signs~~