Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[hanygeorge38]

would u tell me please the defference bettween since and ever since

thanks
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hany

[bud]

"Since" and "ever since" have the same literal meaning. (Of course, "since" by itself has other uses that "ever since" does not.)

At the moment, I can think of three reasons for using "ever since" instead of "since." There could be others.

1. Sometimes "since" means "because," not "from the time that." In sentences where either meaning would make sense, I would use "ever since" to avoid ambiguity:

Since John lost his job, his bills have been piling up... In this example, a reader may not be able to figure out which meaning you intended, unless there is a context to make it clear.

Ever since John lost his job, his bills have been piling up... In this example your intended meaning is clear.

2. Sometimes "ever since" makes the statement more dramatic. It seems to point out that the information, whatever it is, is in some way notable

I've never noticed Pete coming in late since that time he was almost fired... There is nothing wrong with this statement, but is is not necessarily dramatic. Other things, though, such as context or tone of voice, could make it dramatic.

I've never noticed Pete coming in late ever since that time he was almost fired... This is more likely a dramatic statement. Other factors might make it less so, but in general I would consider this as more noreworthy than the previous example.

3. Sometimes it is simply a personal choice of phrasing.

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There is one example that I can think of where I wouldn't use "ever since." I think the reason might be that "ever since" also tends to imply a reltively long period of time:

We haven't seen Mary since yesterday morning... My preference.

We haven't seen Mary ever since yesterday morning... Sounds a little odd.


Hope that helps somewhat.

[Konrad]

Bud,

Although it is kinda implied by your 'dramatic' factor, I would add that 'ever since' is used to talk about consequences of dramatic events. If I haven't seen Mary ever since our conversation, it's implied that there was something about that conversation that made her disappear. That's also why you wouldn't say "I haven't seen Mary ever since yesterday" - because whatever happened yesterday didn't entail changes responsible for her disappearance. And even if something dramatic happened that turned Mary off, not enough time has elapsed for us to establish that we're dealing with a serious disappearance motivated by an "ever since" event. The "consequence" hypothesis is proved by the following:

Ever since their divorce, their daughter has been studying in the US.

The sentence would be odd/untrue if the two things (divorce and study) were coincidental events, that is if the daughter went to study there NOT because of the divorce but had been planning her US college long before the divorce. Now, I think you can safely say:

Their daughter has been studying in the US since their divorce / they divorced.

[bud]

That's a very nice clarification, Konrad. Thank you!

[Konrad]

Thanks Bud,

but... well, I don't know - the more I think about it, the more it seems to me that the 'consequence' element is present in many other conjunctions. If you heard,

When her parents divorced, she went to study in the US.

you'd also conclude there's a causal connection, a connection you'd automatically start looking for also in this situation:

When a new President of Mongolia was elected, Nigerian students went to the US.

Nevertheless, I think the connection is not present (or so strongly present) in 'since' clauses.

[bud]

Good points, Konrad!

I agree with your point that a causal connection is not necessarily implied in a "since" clause, and also that if it is present, it is probably less strong.

I also agree that other conjunctions can serve the same purpose. But that's not surprising, is it? We could reword just about anything in English without changing the meaning. I don't see how that changes what you said earlier.

By the way, I'm assuming you are an English teacher or a native speaker. You can't possibly be a student. Am I right? Either way, welcome to the forum!