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"Merit" pay for teachers???
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Is this a valid idea?
Yes
60%
 60%  [ 3 ]
No
20%
 20%  [ 1 ]
It depends
20%
 20%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 5

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pugachevV



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 2295

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're hired to do a job, as a matter of honour and pride you should do it to the best of your ability.
If the school board is concerned about the performance of its teachers, it should discipline the ones who are not measuring up to the standard they expect.
Given the power of the unions that really run the world's most expensive baby-sitting service, it's likely to be a long uphill battle, at least, in Canada and the UK, to name a couple.
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geokite



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:54 pm    Post subject: Too many variables Reply with quote

I teach high school and will be in favor of merit pay for teachers when the following variables that affect how my students learn are eliminated: student motivation, parental involvement, students prior education, drug use at home, sexual abuse at home, broken homes, language issues, and learning disabilities. To name a few.

Don't compare teachers unless all the variables are accounted for.

Steve
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pugachevV



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 2295

PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All these factors can affect other workers too, but they are still expected to perform their jobs to a certain standard.
The real problem with today's schools is lack of discipline.
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geokite



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pugachevV wrote:
All these factors can affect other workers too, but they are still expected to perform their jobs to a certain standard.
The real problem with today's schools is lack of discipline.


So how does one measure one teacher against another? The variables must be controled, otherwise it is not fair. And the variables I listed are just some of the things that affect how a student learns.

Who do you mean by "other workers"? School workers, or other professions?

Say sanitation workers were judged by how fast they did their job. And some sanitation workers work in an area where the trash is alot heavier. It would be unfair to judge them against others who work with light trash. Agreed?

You can judge them, sure, but take into account the material they are dealing with. Similarly, take into account the students teachers work with. Please let us all know how this can be done.

Whose lack of discipline are you refering to, the students or the teachers? Please clarify.

Steve
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pugachevV



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 2295

PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The intent of teacher testing is to make sure that the students are getting the high quality education the taxpayers are funding. We've all heard the tales of students who can barely write a coherent sentence trying to get into university.
I suppose it's like comparing chalk and cheese to compare teachers with workers in the private sector, for they are not ruled by the constraints of the market place.

Still, they are providing a crucial service to the taxpayers of the school district, and as we all know, some teachers are first rate, dedicated people, and some are just doing it because it pays OK, and has good vacations.
The rest, maybe the majority, falls somewhere in between.
You would think the teachers themselves, and the union/s that represent the teaching profession would be interested in seeing that the dead wood was excised, but unions don't do that, so they are part of the problem.
I do think it's reasonable to expect teachers to have their performance assessed, just as workers of a similar status in the private sector have their performance reviewed.
If you work in the private sector, you have no choice - your performance is reviewed regularly, and if you don't shape up, you ship out.
It's a cruel world out there
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geokite



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But you still haven't addressed how to assess teachers fairly. By basing the assessment of the teachers on what the students learn, you would need to give the teachers the same students.

Are you familiar with a scientific test? Similar to that; eliminate the variables so you can measure what you are wanting to measure, how good the teacher is teaching.

Steve
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pugachevV



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 2295

PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a taxpayer, I expect teachers to be competent.
I suspect the competent teachers are all too well aware of who the incompetent ones are.
Are you telling me that, despite all these high octane brains in academe, nobody can come up with a way to test the performance of teachers?
I don't care how they do it, as long as they do it.
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