Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[mija]

I'm traying to understand the english conditionals and sometimes it is so frustrating. So far I know there is 3 different conditionals
I future simple + if + present simple
II future in the past (would + infinitive) + if + past simple
III future perfect in the past (would have+ verb third form) + if + past perfect
I know you can mix them and there is one just with present simple
and my question now, what are those sentences? is this conditionals or something else...
1. If you were 18, you had to do sth... and for me ot should be ...you would have to do sth
2. If you thought along those lines, you were called... for me... you would be called
3. Nobody now believes me if I tell them "I was" there for three months but then I still have the emotional scars to prove it.... and i don't know what "I was" is doing there.

Please can anybody explain it to me?
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Kate

[MrPedantic]

Hello Mija

For convenience, ESL grammar books refer to the "three types" of conditional statement (sometimes they add a 4th, the so-called "zero" conditional); but the classification is a little misleading.

The main problem this classification causes is that it leads students to believe that there are only 3 types of if-statement. This is unfortunately not the case: "if" is also sometimes used not to present a condition in the usual sense, but to present a fact that the speaker accepts as true.

It's probably too big a subject to cover in the space of one post; but I'll go through your queries now, and if you then find further examples of if-statements that don't seem to make sense, post them on this thread, and I'll see if I can help.

Anyway, to your queries:

1. If you were 18, you had to do X.

� This isn't one of the 3 types. The if-clause here means in effect "Those people who were 18 had to do X": the "were" relates to a real past. (The speaker isn't presenting a hypothesis about the past: he accepts that there were cases where people were 18, and where they had to do X.)

2. If you thought along those lines, you were called...

� Again, this presents a real fact about the past: "Those people who thought along those lines were called..."

Here's another example:

3. If my father came home late, when I was a child, my mother was always very worried.

� This means: "on those occasions when my father came home late, when I was a child, my mother was always very worried".

4. Nobody now believes me if I tell them "I was" there for three months but then I still have the emotional scars to prove it.

� Let's rearrange this a little:

5. If I tell them "I was" there for three months, nobody now believes me, but then I still have the emotional scars to prove it.

� This one is a version of the "zero" (or "type 0") conditional. A type 0 usually has a simple present tense in both clauses, and is used to present a fact that is always true, e.g.

6. If ice melts, it becomes water.

In this kind of conditional, you can put "when" instead of "if", and the meaning remains the same.

The "I was" is part of what the speaker "tells" them: he says to them "I was there for 3 months!", but nobody believes him.

Let me know if it's still a little mysterious!

Bye,
MrP

[mija]

Thank you soooo much MrP. I just needed to hear it from somebody, that not every sentence with "if" has to be a contdiotional. Do you think that in everyday conversations people use a lot of this type of sentences?

Kate
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Kate

[MrPedantic]

Hello Kate

Yes, quite often! e.g.

1. If that was MrQ on the phone, who's that moving about upstairs in his room?

� i.e. "Assuming that that was MrQ on the phone,..."

2. If I was rude to you, it was only because you were rude to me first.

� i.e. "I accept that I was rude to you, but it was only because..."

3. If I was rude, you were ruder.

� i.e. "I concede that I was rude, but you were ruder."

4. If the train was late, I would buy a coffee and read a book in the waiting room.

� i.e. "Whenever the train was late, I used to buy..."

And many more!

MrP