Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[Lorikeet]

Hello Everyone,

Some people have asked me about the difference between the Learning English Forum and the Help Center. I know the Learning English Forum has been here longer than I have, and longer than the Help Center too. I'm not sure what the difference is supposed to be, but one person who contacted me had a suggestion. The suggestion was to have all the questions about English grammar, vocabulary, etc., in the Help Center, and use the Learning English Forum to ask questions about how to learn English, how to study, etc. I told that person that I would post here and see what people think.

--Lorikeet

[RedRose]

Personally, I love Learning English more than I love help center, not only because on Learning English , there are my idols like bud, Bob, Lori, Brian...but also there is an easy and funny atmosphere on the board. people discuss about anything about english-learning here, and people have fun with each other here by discussing.

By contrast, Help center seems very serious.

[Mister Micawber]

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Do you ask Grammar and Vocabulary questions in Learning Center, Rose?

Do you post specific types of messages in the appropriate forums here, according to the Main Menu, or do you make all of your posts in Learning Center?

MM
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_________________
"I really do not know that anything has ever been more exciting than diagramming sentences." � Gertrude Stein
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Canadian-American who teaches English for a living at Mr Micawber's

[RedRose]

[Mister Micawber]

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Fair enough, Rose.

Now, I just finished answering about 12 grammar/vocabulary questions in a row here at Learning Center (9 of them for missdaredevil)-- you can see them near the top of the menu at the moment. Do you think that, when you logged in, you would usually read through those to find out what they were about?


(And thanks for answering these 'survey questions' of mine!)

MM
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_________________
"I really do not know that anything has ever been more exciting than diagramming sentences." � Gertrude Stein
...............
Canadian-American who teaches English for a living at Mr Micawber's

[RedRose]

When I log into a forum, I usually browse those titles of threads in the first place, and then, I choose postings with interesting titles to read first, and yes, if I have time, I would love to read all new postings one by one.

After reading your last posting, I am gonna log into Help center to read those postings, yours in particular.

PS: your signature is very funny I love it! you see, MM...it means breast in Chinese slang

[Mister Micawber]

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Yes, I would like to read all posts, too, but I seldom have time to do more than answer the unanswered ones.

Thanks, Rose.

MISTER MICAWBER (Do I look respectable now?)
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_________________
"I really do not know that anything has ever been more exciting than diagramming sentences." � Gertrude Stein
...............
Canadian-American who teaches English for a living at Mr Micawber's

[RedRose]

[bud]

I never even knew about the Help Center until Advoca brought this issue up a couple of months ago. I've been in this forum for at least five years (before Dave switched to the current format 3+ years ago), and it has always been a place where people ask questions of whatever nature they choose. Oddly, the questions about how to learn English have always been the ones most likely to go unanswered. Probably that's because such questions are very general with no simple answers, and any possible answers are extremely repetitive.

Why is it that students and teachers end up, for the most part, in this forum? I think it's the titles of the forums. If I come here for the first time, I'm looking at the titles (which for the most part need no descriptions) and ignoring the descriptions. I see Politics and I think... hmm, maybe another time, but right now I have a question about English. Same thing with Computers, Family, Food, Etc.

I see Help Center and I think... OK, that's where The FAQ is, and where to go if I'm having problems with the site. Then I see Learning English. Aha, I can ask my question there! I click into the forum and I see all the questions and I "know" that I'm in the right place.

My point is that people will naturally assume that this is "the place." We can decide now that people need to got to the Help Center, but in 6 months this forum will have changed back into what is has always been.

And as RedRose said, this forum has a friendly feel to it. I have checked out Help Center, and it does have a very serious atmosphere.

I have seen many students and teachers come and go in here, and never before has there been any complaint about the nature of questions. I don't understand at all what the problem is. In my view, the only consequences will be that this forum will die (temporarily, until it re-evolves) and the regulars of the Help Center will feel that their forum has been taken over by a bunch of intruders.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

[LucentShade]

When I first came to these forums, the Help Center wasn't around (at least I don't think it was), and all the grammar/vocabulary questions were centered on this forum. I don't mind seeing technical langauge questions on this forum--I usually read posts in LE and HC to see if there are any questions I can answer, and for the learners, they can post in either forum and have a good chance of getting an answer. So, I don't think we need to say "This belongs here!" or "This belongs in the other forum!" The system works fine as it is.

[Harmony]

Hi Bud,

You and I usually see things eye to eye, but this time I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you.

There are some very good reasons for asking students to post vocab/grammar questions in one specific forum. The most obvious is to give as many other students as possible the benefit of reading their posts and the answers they've received.

Another reason is that the Help Center is where the majority of teachers are to be found. Students who post there often receive valuable comments and different points of view from several different teachers. There's a general feeling of goodwill and a cooperative spirit which is increasing daily as new people continue to arrive.

You needn't be concerned about Help Center regulars feeling invaded. Many of the Help Center teachers answer questions and participate in several forums here. There's no territorial feeling. In any case, you and Brian Boyd are the only ones who have continued to post exclusively in the Learning English forum and I can assure you that you'd both be very welcome in the Help Center!

The atmosphere in the Help Center has changed radically in recent weeks. It's a much friendlier place than it once was. If anything I'd say the Learning English forum is the more formal of the two these days. Lately only a handful of students have been posting vocabulary and grammar questions here. The vast majority seem to have been able to find their way to the Help Center without any difficulty.

Students browse the forums to look for questions similar to those they wish to post. I think it's logical to assume that those students who may be "wandering about" will find the Help Center more easily if they're not misled by the presence of vocab/grammar questions in the Learning English forum. It would be a shame if they began posting here and remained unaware of the offerings in the Help Center forum.

I see absolutely no reason why vocabulary and grammar questions should not be posted in a single location and, as I've explained above, I strongly believe there are several advantages for doing so.

As always, my friend, any comments you (or anyone else) may have will be more than welcome.

~ ~ ~ Harmony

[Mister Micawber]

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The idea of territoriality of forum is new to me. This is all the same location, and I browse and respond in any forum that interests me-- and in several other forum websites as well. However, because of time constraints, I do depend on labelling to help me decide where to look.

Simply changing the forum titles to more clearly reflect their purposes would go a long way towards making these fora more efficient-- and as you grow, as the number of daily hits increases, you will find efficiency and user-friendliness more and more critical. Another helpful tweak would be to put the busiest fora-- Learning English (aka How to Study English?) and Help Center (aka Grammar and Word Questions?)-- at the top of the main menu and emboldened. At the moment, the main menu is a long alphabetical list without visual definition.

Many questions are submitttedly repeatedly because members do not take the opportunity to look through previous threads, and they don't do that partly because the threads under discussion are so multifarious. When you have so many-- often underused-- fora on specific topics like Health and Sports, it seems anomalous that the language itself (this is an ESL site, after all) is dealt with so amorphously.
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_________________
"I really do not know that anything has ever been more exciting than diagramming sentences." � Gertrude Stein
...............
Canadian-American who teaches English for a living at Mr Micawber's

[Harmony]

Hi Mr. M,

You've made some great suggestions. I think renaming the two forums and putting them at the top of the list would be a huge improvement. What do you think Lorikeet? Will Dave be interested in making some changes?

~ ~ ~ Harmony

[Lorikeet]

I can suggest things to Dave, but I'd like to get a better feeling about consensus first. Of course, what he decides to do is up to him. I have neither the authority nor the tools to do any of that.

[RedRose]

iI don't have so many opinions about the two forums, and my english isn't as good as you guys', so I can't write as much as you guys do about the two forums.

However, as an English-learner, I just wannna express my viewpoint simply: I don't like Help center, but I like learning English. the reason is simple too: LE is more fun than HC. That is it. Maybe that is another reason why LE is so popular.