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Jenny.0504
Joined: 15 May 2006 Posts: 3
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Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 2:04 am Post subject: China vs. Japan |
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The prime minister of Japan claims that he will continue to visit the Yasukuni Shrine (靖国神社) where the war criminals of the Second World War are venerated.
We Chinese all know what Japan had done to our motherland. Chinese people suffered so much during the war of resistance, so what Japan has done hurt our feelings deeply.
What's more, some Japanese educators try every mean to falsify the history during the war time, dreaming to cover their criminal acts towards Chinese people. We Chinese feel extremely angry to Japan.
Of course we want peace, but see what Japanese have done in recent years! It's high time for us to do something to protect our ethnic dignity!
What's your opinion? |
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pugachevV
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 2295
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Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 6:35 am Post subject: |
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Remember this when you are extolling the virtue if going to war with Taiwan. In war such things as the Nanking atrocities happen.
It is no use saying that Chinese soldiers would not do such things. They can, they have, and they will.
Avoid war at all costs. |
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Outofin
Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 71
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Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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pugachevV wrote: |
It is no use saying that Chinese soldiers would not do such things. They can, they have, and they will.
Avoid war at all costs. |
I think they can't, they didn't, and they won't.
Yeah, let's yell out without any evidence and see who will win.  |
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ltp-008
Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 258
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Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 12:26 am Post subject: |
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World War Two ended more than half century ago,we should remember the lesson which many countries had suffered a lots.But we also should look on the bright side ,after the World War Two,the Nazi Germany and militarism Janpan have become democratic countries which are the peaceful powers in the world.
About the issue of visiting the Yasukuni Shrine is not a big deal,some mainland China politians use this issue to cause conflicting between Japan and mainland China.As the prime minister of Japan has said,his visit of the shrine is praying for peace ,you should know that there are many war deathes in the shrine,if you were a japanese or a Japanese politician ,wouldn't you visit the shrine for votes?many prime ministers of Japna had made many announcements that they expressed apology for the suffering and damaging of some Asia countries during the invasion ,what more do you still want?
About the issue of Japanese history class textbooks,do you realy know the educational system in Japan?There are many kinds of textbooks for the schools to choose.Only 2 % of the schools in japan choose the extreme right-wing textbooks ,these textbooks doesn't falsify the history,they just seldom state that period history.Do you know how badly the government of mainland China falsify chinese history ,even his communist party 's history?Some chinese have been brainwashed by the government of the mainland China,they only listen to the state-run radio ,only watch state-run TV,only read state-run newspaper,they don't know exactly what had happend in the world.
Nobody wants to infringe chinese dignity ,but chinese also should respect themselves ,it is very wise for some chinese not to let the dictatorship regime government fools themselves any more.I hope you will become one of these wise chinese. |
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pugachevV
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 2295
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Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 6:13 am Post subject: |
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To outofin : Sure ignore any history that doesn't make you or your country look pretty.
Take a look at some of Chairman Mao's finest hours.
Japan is now a free country - is China? |
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Outofin
Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 71
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Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 6:25 am Post subject: |
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pugachevV wrote: |
To outofin : Sure ignore any history that doesn't make you or your country look pretty.
Take a look at some of Chairman Mao's finest hours.
Japan is now a free country - is China? |
When we talk about WW2 and Japan's attitute to the history, don't change topic to current politics. You can talk about politics and ideology, open a new topic.
You said Chinese army did and will do atrocities like what happened in Nanking. You need some evidence and analysis to back up your statement. Otherwise, you're telling lies and rumors, intended or not. |
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ltp-008
Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 258
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Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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To Outofin :
Do you want to know what the government of the mainland China has done to their people?Let me say some fews:
First,in 1950s the communist party launched a movement against the right -intellectuals,more than thousand of hundreds of them had been put into prison and many had been killed.
Second,during the 1960s and early 1970 so-called "the culture great revolution ",do you know how many people in mainland China had been killed ?the number of the deathes is more than the number of Nanjing massacre in 1940s.
Third,do you know how many people (most college students ) had been killed by the mainland china military force in Beijing tiananmen square in 1989?There were thousands of innocent students (at least hundreds) killed by the governmet of mainland China.
Considering all above,we can conclude that the government of mainland china treated their own people very badly and atrociously . |
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Outofin
Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 71
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Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 6:40 am Post subject: |
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ltp-008, if you jump in and say this, I would assume that you agree with pugachevV and are telling the same lie about Chinese army.
Even though you exaggerated the number of people persecuted, I agree that those were atrocities. But unlike Japanese, Chinese have admitted that the anti-right movements and culture revolution were all wrong, were �holocaust� as said in official statements.
The point I want to say is, I�m not worried if those terrible times would come back upon us, but those Japanese bastards (not all Japanese, but those right-wing) are gathering strength and would come back again. You don�t know what the WW2 history was according to the �shrine�, do you?
Let�s use 1989 year as an example, which you exaggerated as well, to predict how Chinese will do in the future. This is the only case you mentioned that involved the army. Back then, unlike most countries and most likely your country, China didn�t have armed police. The country experienced many protests in its history especially in 1970s and 1980s and all were resolved peacefully. In 1989, there was no peace end. Order couldn�t be restored. And China didn�t have armed police. So the city had been under martial law for half month. In the beginning, several soldiers were killed by civilians without shooting a single bullet in their guns.
Yes, most people including me believe students were right and the government was wrong. But let�s see the situation and use it to predict the future. If China takes Taiwan back in the future, what would happen? This is the case you care. You can only say, if hundreds of thousands protestors ask for something, right or wrong, that the government can�t offer, they would send out armed police, which they have now. If it can�t be resolved, the city would be under martial law. After half month, if protestors still gather in public places, the army would enforce their power.
The thing is, you need to prove that Chinese army invaded a foreign country, killed and raped hundreds of thousands civilians, and they will do it if they take Taiwan back. If you couldn�t, you�re a liar.
You'll realize that Chinese against Japanese right-wing are doing a thing good for you too. |
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pugachevV
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 2295
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Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 7:16 am Post subject: |
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In China you get your history filtered by your government. Probably there are web sites you cannot access from China because your governement doesn't want you to get a different view from the one they have taught you.
Even if you are aware of this, you can believe whatever you like.
The ostrich apparently believes that if he sticks his head in the sand and so cannot see you - then you cannot see him. |
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Outofin
Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 71
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Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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pugachevV wrote: |
In China you get your history filtered by your government. Probably there are web sites you cannot access from China because your governement doesn't want you to get a different view from the one they have taught you.
Even if you are aware of this, you can believe whatever you like.
The ostrich apparently believes that if he sticks his head in the sand and so cannot see you - then you cannot see him. |
What are you trying to achieve? Wish people would believe what you said by simply saying you�re living in a free country? I doubt if it�d work.
Seriously, if you�re really interested in Asia history and politics, you should focus on learning rather than speaking what you can�t back up. |
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Isabelle
Joined: 19 May 2006 Posts: 11
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Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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To Itp-008 and pugachevV:
I don't know what do you think about a country without the history.
But I want to say China, like other countrys, can never forget this history.
Just because it is true!
I want to ask you a simple question.
If another country invaded your motherland and killed your compatriots, (300,000)
But now they want to prettify the aggression.
How do you feel about it?
Could you say:"No problem!"?
Please remember it is the right-wing Japan that don't want to face the history, not our Chinese.
And I want to tell you, China can face our history not only the humiliated history but also the wrong policy which made by our leaders.
Chinese love peace for ever.
China is a open and free country. _________________ Happy every day! |
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Philo Kevetch
Joined: 01 Feb 2006 Posts: 564
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Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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The Chinese army never invaded another country; never murdered or raped? Does Tibet ring a bell?
As for changing the topic....the ankle bone is connected to the leg bone, the leg bone is connected to the hip bone...hum along if you know the tune. |
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ltp-008
Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 258
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2006 12:33 am Post subject: |
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To Isabelle and Outofin:
I don't intend to cause some quarrels ,please be calm.
We all condemn what the Japanese militarism forces had done to some Asia countries especially china during the 1940s.Now the issue is the visit of the shrine by Japna 's prime minister.It is not a big deal,don't chinese leaders or ordinary people visit the war deathes?
If mainland china can face its history ,it is good,but can you really know the real history of the China by only reading,listening,watching state-run media?
I think it is better for you to access to oversea meida which you can know all-sides history of china.Good luck! |
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Outofin
Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 71
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2006 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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ltp-008 wrote: |
Now the issue is the visit of the shrine by Japna 's prime minister.It is not a big deal,don't chinese leaders or ordinary people visit the war deathes?
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You don't know what the issue is at all. If Germen worship Hitler today, would it be a big deal?
The "shrine" is not for war deathes only. In 1979, some Japanese right wingers put class A war criminals' names into the shrine, even Japanese society and government were surprised by this move. Japan gradually felt stronger and stronger pressure from other countries especially China and South Korean. In 1985, the Prime Minister of Japan at that time suggested to move the war criminal names out of the shrine but that didn't happen.
The next thing regarding this issue is how Koizum would response to the pressure from the US when he visits the US this summer. Keep an eye on it.
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U.S. Rep. Henry Hyde wrote that Koizumi should provide assurances of no further visits to Yasukuni Shrine, which critics say glorifies militarism, before a possible address at the U.S. Congress during an upcoming trip to Washington. |
And by the way, I don't mean offense, but I found many people here have full of opinions but no information and knowledge. You can't just say "go learn, go get to know what you don't know." Why not you learn and show me what you've learned. |
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zhangchen_x
Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 1
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2006 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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As a chinese, I destest that the prime minister visit the Yasukuni Shrine. That is an insult to the true history. And I believe most of us Chinese was annoyed by this kind of behavior. And I can also understand their fierce words.
What can we do now? Just say some violent words? Or even to insult Japanes? I think what we should start to do is to make our country stronger. And then, make a newly powerful image in the world. At that time, I believe none can look down upon us and dare to slander our country. |
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