Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[nawee]

Hello,

I came across this example while checking various constructions that can be used with the verb "need".

"She needs her hair washing."

It says that it's British English. I have never heard a construction like this. Is this really used to mean the same as "She needs her hair washed"?

need something done = need something -ing?

Thank you,

Nawee

[Mister Micawber]

.
I am not a Brit, but until one shows up, I can say that only

She needs her hair washed
Her hair needs washing

are acceptable to me.
.
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"I really do not know that anything has ever been more exciting than diagramming sentences." � Gertrude Stein
...............
Canadian-American who teaches English for a living at Mr Micawber's

[CP]

You can also say, "She needs to wash her hair" and "Her hair needs to be washed."

I have heard people from Pennsylvania leave off the "to be," hence, "Her hair needs washed," but most people would think that construction a little odd, I think.

I have never heard anyone say the equivalent of, "She needs her hair washing," and I'd like to know if anyone has.
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You live a new life for every new language you speak. -Czech proverb

[alan.es]

As a Brit, I'd say that:

She needs her hair washed -

This would imply that someone else is needed to wash her hair


She needs her hair washing -

This is more ambiguous and could imply that someone else should wash her hair but it could also be the same as the following.


Her hair needs washing;
she needs to wash her hair

- which clearly mean her hair is dirty and she should do it herself.

[MrPedantic]

It's an interesting construction. What if we change the context a little?

1. She needs her head examined for going out with MrQ.
2. She's going out with MrQ? She needs her head examining.

To me, both sound idiomatic; presumably the verb in #2 is ergative.

MrP

[nawee]

So...

If someone says "She needs her hair washing", it is acceptable in British English? It will not be regarded as a grammatical mistake?

Thank you,

Nawee

[MrPedantic]

Yes, it's ok in British English, in a fairly colloquial context.

(I would be disinclined to say it about anyone, though...)

MrP

[LucentShade]

[metal56]

[metal56]

[redset]

'She needs her hair washing' and 'she needs her head examining' are perfectly acceptable in British English (although they're not exactly formal). Look at them as a kind of rearrangement of 'her hair needs washing' and 'her head needs examining'.

[CP]

To these American ears, "She needs her hair washing" sounds very strange.

If "washing" is a gerund, hence a noun, and "hair washing" thus -- what? a noun phrase? -- and she always goes for her hair washing on Thursdays, but she missed last Thursday's hair washing, and now she really needs her hair washing, the one that she missed, then OK I guess. But if it is the present participle used instead of the past participle -- "she needs her hair washing" instead of "she needs her hair washed" -- I've never heard such a construction.

Any Yanks out there who would say it this way? Thank you.
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You live a new life for every new language you speak. -Czech proverb

[redset]

[CP]

I would not think that "She needs her hair washed" means "She needs her hair to have been washed," but rather "She needs her hair to be washed." It needs to be washed right now, not in the future, and there's nothing progressive about it.

"My car needs repairing," like "My hair needs washing," sounds fine. But "I need my car repairing" sounds like a mistake.

Again -- to these American ears.

Where are the rest of the Yankees? I need my position upholding!
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You live a new life for every new language you speak. -Czech proverb

[nawee]

It seems like I "set afloat" another hot debate? =D

What CP said about the construction sounding like a mistake to him (and probably to many American English speakers) is the whole point of my posting. The sentence didn't sound right to me. I marked that sentence wrong and changed it to "She needs her hair washed" or "Her hair needs washing". It was only when I checked with a Cambridge grammar book that I found the construction listed as acceptable in British English.

Now quite a few British English speakers have posted on this board that this construction is acceptable in colloquial British English. What about in writing or in formal speech? And would you, British English native teachers, teach this construction to second language learners?

As always, many thanks to all contributors to this forum.

Nawee