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snd2tsy
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 18
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 Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:53 am Post subject: A controversial fill in the blank |
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Dear all,
May I ask how would you fill in the following blank ?
That is the man who ______ (take) Joe's pen. |
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asterix
Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 1654
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:08 am Post subject: |
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| That is the man who took Joe's pen. |
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CP
Joined: 12 Jun 2006
Posts: 2875
Location: California
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:07 am Post subject: |
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Why is it controversial?
_________________
You live a new life for every new language you speak. -Czech proverb |
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snd2tsy
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| CP wrote: |
| Why is it controversial? |
First thanks Asterix for replying. Why is it controversial ? Well, since it is only a little bit more than 5 hours since I post this question, I would like to wait for a few more responses before I point out the controversial part. |
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snd2tsy
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:48 pm Post subject: The controversial being .... |
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OK, here is the controversial part.
Imagine I am a fortune teller and I am saying this to a friend "That is the man who will take Joe's (or your) pen."
Or I could be a witness accusing the defendant : "That is the man who has taken Joe's pen."
In fact, I can make up other circumstances such that had taken and would have taken can also be correct.
Now the point is : am I correct on this ? Can I make those assumption ? I really don't know. |
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Lorikeet
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 1877
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Of course those are possible. It just shows that you can make up all kinds of interesting stories to match an answer. However, your exercise isn't controversial because the answer that was given is the logical one, if there is no further explanation. If you add the stories and the answers, they are right too, but they wouldn't be chosen as the most common possibility. So I don't think there is any controversy. |
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Anuradha Chepur
Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 933
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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What a disappointment.
And I spent a sleepless night over it.  |
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redset
Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 582
Location: England
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 5:22 am Post subject: |
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| Anuradha Chepur wrote: |
What a disappointment.
And I spent a sleepless night over it. |
Just be glad nobody took your pen!  |
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Anuradha Chepur
Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 933
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| I'll happily give my pen if anyone could break the suspense. Thanks for the consolation though. |
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snd2tsy
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Lorikeet wrote: |
| Of course those are possible. It just shows that you can make up all kinds of interesting stories to match an answer. However, your exercise isn't controversial because the answer that was given is the logical one, if there is no further explanation. If you add the stories and the answers, they are right too, but they wouldn't be chosen as the most common possibility. So I don't think there is any controversy. |
Dear Lorikeet, thanks for explaining. Does' that mean I should take the simplest situation instead of making any assumption whenever I do these type of question ? |
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Lorikeet
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 1877
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:41 am Post subject: |
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| snd2tsy wrote: |
| Lorikeet wrote: |
| Of course those are possible. It just shows that you can make up all kinds of interesting stories to match an answer. However, your exercise isn't controversial because the answer that was given is the logical one, if there is no further explanation. If you add the stories and the answers, they are right too, but they wouldn't be chosen as the most common possibility. So I don't think there is any controversy. |
Dear Lorikeet, thanks for explaining. Does' that mean I should take the simplest situation instead of making any assumption whenever I do these type of question ? |
If you are taking a test, I'd say you should take the most common situation and answer it that way, because that is most likely what the testers expect. If you are trying to think of other ways to play with the language, or to see how many other examples you can come up with, I think it's a legitimate activity. It just depends on what you are trying to do. |
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snd2tsy
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:49 am Post subject: |
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| Anuradha Chepur wrote: |
What a disappointment.
And I spent a sleepless night over it. |
Dear Anuradha, thank you for your time and effort. In order not to waste your kindness please also share it. Even if your idea is same as that of Lorikeet's, you can still express it in you own way. I am sure I can be benefited from it. Thanks. |
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Anuradha Chepur
Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 933
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| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:50 am Post subject: |
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I had been thinking about your sentence and trying to figure out what the controversy is, but got nowhere, until you youself revealed it.
No, my opinion doesn't differ from that of Lorikeet.
But of course, unless the task specifies you to put your answer in the simple past, you can't be marked wrong for putting future/past perfect, etc, provided a human is checking it and the human is open to multiple interpretations (like Lorikeet and I). In case it's computer checking, you'd better stick to the simplest and the straightest answer. |
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snd2tsy
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Lorikeet wrote: |
| snd2tsy wrote: |
| Lorikeet wrote: |
| Of course those are possible. It just shows that you can make up all kinds of interesting stories to match an answer. However, your exercise isn't controversial because the answer that was given is the logical one, if there is no further explanation. If you add the stories and the answers, they are right too, but they wouldn't be chosen as the most common possibility. So I don't think there is any controversy. |
Dear Lorikeet, thanks for explaining. Does' that mean I should take the simplest situation instead of making any assumption whenever I do these type of question ? |
If you are taking a test, I'd say you should take the most common situation and answer it that way, because that is most likely what the testers expect. If you are trying to think of other ways to play with the language, or to see how many other examples you can come up with, I think it's a legitimate activity. It just depends on what you are trying to do. |
Dear Lorikeet, appreciate again for the explaination, particularly the summary. |
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snd2tsy
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Anuradha Chepur wrote: |
I had been thinking about your sentence and trying to figure out what the controversy is, but got nowhere, until you youself revealed it.
No, my opinion doesn't differ from that of Lorikeet.
But of course, unless the task specifies you to put your answer in the simple past, you can't be marked wrong for putting future/past perfect, etc, provided a human is checking it and the human is open to multiple interpretations (like Lorikeet and I). In case it's computer checking, you'd better stick to the simplest and the straightest answer. |
Dear Anuradha, thank you for the summarization. You give me a general guideline to do these kind of things in future and that's very helpful.
By the way, I recalled my teacher once told me that not to start a sentence with conjunctions like "And", "Because" etc. because there is nothing for them to join. So whenever I feel urge to break the rule, I use other similar expression instead.
What I would like to ask is how straight is this rule ? I mean is it definitely, absolutely, straightly no exception or it depends ? The reason I ask is I've read numerous counter examples in newspaper and stories like "Half Blood Prince". |
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