Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[Tetsu]

Are the following sentences correct?

S1: There is not any parking here.

S2: There is not any running in the hall.

S3: There is not any avoiding the loss.

S4: There is not any getting around the job.

Thanks a lot for your help.
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Tetsu

[CP]

Isn't this the same sort of thing that you already asked?

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/student/viewtopic.php?p=76198&highlight=#76198
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You live a new life for every new language you speak. -Czech proverb

[lotus]

Hi Tetsu,

As Redset said, "no" is an emphatic way to say "not any."

Below are the sentences with some adjustments:

S1: There is not any parking here.
There isn't any parking here.
There's no parking here.

S2: There is not any running in the hall.
There isn't any running (allowed) in the halls.
There's no running (allowed) in the halls.

S3: There is not any avoiding the loss.
There isn't any way to avoid the loss.
There's no way to avoid the loss.

S4: There is not any getting around the job.
There isn't any way to get around the job.
There's no way to get around the job.


--lotus

[Tetsu]

Hello CP

Thanks a lot for your kind reply.

Sorry but I'd like to know if 'any' is OK or not. Judging from your reply I think you mean all of them are incorrect. I understand that.

But Mr./Miss redset geve me comments as follows in the thread you mentioned, http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/student/viewtopic.php?t=19379 : 'I think you're technically negating noun phrases, in which case you use a determiner (no, any etc.) and not just not.' That's his/her comments.

It seems to me that he/she says in some cases 'any' is OK in this type of sentences. But my English is so poor that I may have misunderstood his/her comments. I'm worried. I'm not sure if I undderstand his/her reply 100% or completely. That's the point. I'd like to confirm.

But now I understand you mean all of S1 to S4 are incorrect because you gave me your same reply again in this thread. Thanks a lot for helping me many times. I can't tell my thanks enough.

But Mr./Miss redset's comments are still in my mind unsolved. I'd like to confirm a British teacher's opinion because he/she is British.

Thanks!
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Tetsu

[Tetsu]

Hello lotus

Thanks a lot for your kind help.

I understand all the sentences you gave are correct. But it' a big surprise to me because it's the quite opposite of Mr. PC's opinion and this is the first time for me to hear clearly that S1 to S4 are correct. But I understand your reply well and enough.

If you don't mind, would you tell me the country you spent your life before you were 20 years old or your nationality or just you're British or not? Because that will give me your English backgraound and I can understand the difference between you and Mr. PC better. But if you do, please ignore this request because this is a highly personal question.

Thanks!
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Tetsu

[lotus]

Hi Tetsu,

You shouldn't be so concerned about whether the advice is from a Briton or an American. Usually, if the answer is of one specific origin or another, the respondent will let you know.

I have some background in both; but mainly in American English.

I have great admiration for CP. His clear and concise answers are something to behold. This forum is lucky to have him as a contributor.


--lotus

[Tetsu]

Hello lotus

I read your reply again and got a small question about what you mean. I'would like to confirm what you mean to avoid misunderstanding because my English is so poor and I have little common sense in Engish.

Which do you mean, [A] or [B]?

[A]
The following sentences, S1 to S4, are incorrect.
S1: There is not any parking here.
S2: There is not any running in the hall.
S3: There is not any avoiding the loss.
S4: There is not any getting around the job.

The following sentences are correct.
There isn't any parking here.
There's no parking here.
There isn't any running (allowed) in the halls.
There's no running (allowed) in the halls.
There isn't any way to avoid the loss.
There's no way to avoid the loss.
There isn't any way to get around the job.
There's no way to get around the job.

[B]
All of the following sentences are correct.
S1: There is not any parking here.
S2: There is not any running in the hall.
S3: There is not any avoiding the loss.
S4: There is not any getting around the job.

There isn't any parking here.
There's no parking here.
There isn't any running (allowed) in the halls.
There's no running (allowed) in the halls.
There isn't any way to avoid the loss.
There's no way to avoid the loss.
There isn't any way to get around the job.
There's no way to get around the job.

Thanks!
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Tetsu

[Tetsu]

Hello lotus

Thanks a lot for your second reply. I understand well.

The reason I asked you to tell me your English background is some points in English are quite different between British and American. When I talk with a British teacher by using what I learned from an American teacher he says 'Oh, no! That's incorrect! We don't say that! How funny!" and when I talk with an American teacher by using what I learned from British teacher he says 'Oh, no! That's incorrect! We don't say that! How funny!"

So I have to distinguish British and American to keep good communication with both teachers and both people.

I know my English has bigger problems that should be impoved before distinguishing between British and American. I know that well. But I'd like to keep good communication with both British and American people and try to distinguish them.

Any way, thanks a lot for your kind reply. I didn't expected to have your positive reply because it's a personal question. I can't tell you my heart enough.

Thanks!
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Tetsu

[CP]

Dear Tetsu:

To clarify a bit: I think you can say the sentences you wrote, either exactly as you wrote them or as modified here, but the second way to say each sentence is more commonly heard, in the U.S., at least:

S1: There is not / isn't any parking [allowed] here. There is no parking [allowed] here.

S2: There is not / isn't any running [allowed] in the hall. There is no running [allowed] in the hall.

S3: There is not / isn't any avoiding the loss. There is no avoiding the loss.

S4: There is not / isn't any getting around the job. There is no getting around the job.

I agree that Britons and Americans will differ in how they say something and will find the other person's way strange or funny. Two nations divided by a common language, as they say. It will be interesting to see whether the widespread use of the Internet and the growing commonality of English will increase or decrease the regionalisms in English. I have heard it said that regional dialects and accents are greater now than in years past -- surprising but, to me, gratifying. I like to visit places where English is not the same as back home in California, where the creativity of English results in something a little different.

You said, "But my English is so poor that I may have misunderstood his/her comments. I'm worried. I'm not sure if I undderstand his/her reply 100% or completely. That's the point. I'd like to confirm." I must disagree with you a little: Your English is not poor at all; it is very good. But obviously you are trying hard to perfect it, and you want to know all the rules. The frustrating but good thing about English is that it is flexible and accepting of all other languages in growing, and sometimes the hard and fast rule is elusive or nonexistent.

Sometimes, as with these tricky sentences of yours, there is a better or more accepted or more elegant way to say it, but that doesn't make your sentences completely wrong. (There is not any hard and fast rule sometimes. There's no hard and fast rule sometimes.)

I guess on this board sometimes we give the questions the black-or-white treatment when shades of gray are more accurate.

I don't know if that clears anything up, however.
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You live a new life for every new language you speak. -Czech proverb

[Tetsu]

Hello PC

Thanks a lot for your kind help.

Your reply is so clear and full of consideration and has no room of conjecture or misunderstanding. I think I understand your feeling perfectly. That's what I wanted to know. I'll never ever forget your explanation and kindness.

I'd like to own the English feeling jointly with American or British people or understand English by feeling. I wouldn't like to understand English by rule. My question may have troubled you but that's why I asked the same question. I'm so happy now to learn your feeling about not and no because it's the West Coast's feeling and the US's feeling. I own the feeling jointly with the US people now. How wonderful!

I hope good luck to you.
And best wishes to your family.

Thanks!
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Tetsu

[Tetsu]

Hello lotus

Would you give me your reply to my fourth post, which begins 'Hello lotus, I read your reply again ....'?

Thanks.
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Tetsu

[redset]

Hi Tetsu - CP's right, often the 'best' way of phrasing something is simply the way that everyone says it. It becomes the most common, and then other English speakers learn to use that phrase simply because that's the way everyone says it. It is good to learn the rules behind the language, but remember that many (maybe even most) native speakers probably wouldn't be able to explain exactly why they phrase things a certain way. They just learned what people usually say.

Ok, here's what you were asking me:

[Tetsu]

Hello redset

Thanks for your kind reply.

I understand your reply is the same as Mr. CP's. I thought, when I read your first reply, your opinion is a little bit different from Mr. CP's. But that was my misuderstanding. I unerstand there's no difference between British and American concerning the usage of this kind of not and no.

I understand the difference between 'is not any' and 'isn't any.'

I understand 'parking' has two meanings, 'parking lot' and 'to park.' I didn't know the former one.

These caused a lot of troubles in giving a reply to my post. I have to apologize. I'll try to explain enough when I post from now on.

The last paragraph, the difference between British and American, is so interesting to me. I had thought until I read your reply that you British peple are so happy becasue you don't have to study English to communicate witrh foreign people of the world but now I learned you have to do another effort, the effort to ask yourself "Is this British or not British?"

I wish I'll be able to say, about the English language, the same words as you said in the future, "If I think I have some useful input I'll usually chime in."

Thanks!
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Tetsu