Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[howtowhyis]

I'm pretty sure 'family' is singular. What are some other words that include a group but use the singular rules?

Let's brainstorm!

[Lorikeet]

In American English, you are right. I believe it's different in British English (or other Englishes).

In American English, we use the singular for groups like team, class, or group. There are many other words like this that I can't think of right now. I'm sure you can find a list on the Internet.

[2006]

Of course "family" is singular and it should be singular in all varieties of English.

[CP]

[2006]

That's why I underlined should. It seems more sensible to say "family is" and "family members are". Of course, if you say "family" when you mean "family members", your shortcut/laziness sets you up for using 'bad grammar'.

[redset]

CP's right, in British English we tend to use either singular or plural forms depending on the context. It's really down to whether you want to stress the collective itself or the individual members (which happen to form a group). An easy example is a famous band, say U2 - if you're talking about U2 going on tour you could say 'U2 is currently touring', which stresses the group itself and possibly all of the crews and businessmen that go along with this kind of outing. If you say 'U2 are currently touring' it feels more personable, like you're talking about the individual members playing shows together. Technically it's the same thing of course, but you're emphasising the individuals over the encompassing group.

If you say 'my family are out' then you're saying that the individual family members are not at home (probably independently of each other) whereas saying 'my family is out' stresses the actual family unit, implying that they've gone out as a family. It's not bad grammar, although it may not be found in very formal English. It's a little unrealistic to expect people to walk around saying 'the members of my family are currently not at home'.

[2006]

1...They can just say My family is not at home now. It doesn't matter whether they are out as a group or individually.

2...No one is telling people what they have to say. The original question was whether "family" is singular or plural, and we are giving our opinions. In my opinion "family" is singular but if people want to use it as plural, no one will stop them.

[redset]

Right, but what I mean is you can impart that information by using the plural or singular form of the verb, so if your family did go out as a group then you can imply it. The plural form is basically a subtle shorthand for 'all the members of my family are' - I guess it's a form of ellipsis.

My point is that this is how it works here, and you seemed to be characterising the usage as some lazy or incorrect form, but it's actually a feature of British English in general. And we could be here all week discussing the differences between British and American English I just think it's more useful to make students aware of common language variations.

[2006]

Fair enough.

[nawee]

What about pronouns?

My whole family is(are) out. They(It) won't be back until very late. (??)

In BrE, I guess "they" would be used. But what about in AmE? If "family" is invariably treated as a singular noun, is it ok to use "they"?

Many thanks in advance,

Nawee

[CP]

Illogical as it may be, I think most Americans would say, "My whole family is out. They won't be back until very late." We wouldn't feel right saying "family are," but we'd probably think of the individuals when saying that they won't be back until late.
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