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brunette
Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 51
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Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:55 am Post subject: About Chinese Loong |
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Here I'd like to say something to the Chinese people in this forum. From now on, please stop translating "Loong" into "dragon" again. We knew they 're totally different, we knew the guy who first made this translation is an idiot on either western or Chinese culture. We have been constantly mistaken for being proud of being the offspring of a gaint evil lizard by the western world, and we're happily continuing this mistake while simply blaming it on the westerners.
If we really want the world to know us, we can't always rely on the foreigners to make the first move. If we just look on the obstacles in the way of cultural communication with folded arms, they could just do the same. And this is the only way to keep this totem for our nation-- you know what I mean if you saw the hottest news posted on various news websites ever since this morning.
As a Chinese, let's do our nation a favor by using loong instead of dragon, and patiently answer every foreigner's bewilderment. Trust me, they can take Yin and Yang, they won't really care about another borrowed word. |
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Lorikeet

Joined: 08 Oct 2005 Posts: 1877 Location: San Francisco
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Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 9:07 am Post subject: |
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Would you mind explaining further what the problem was with the news websites? I don't have a negative connotation to "dragon". I don't see how calling it "loong" would make anything any different. |
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ad-miral

Joined: 01 Sep 2006 Posts: 1488
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Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 9:23 am Post subject: |
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here, this is a chinese "Long":
And this is a western "dragon":
I guess brunett wanted to say that Long is different from dragon as it looks different. I think it's stupid, the "long" is just a image of a chinese dragon and the "dragon" is just a image of western dragon. _________________ If I say "I love you" to someone, then I also have to say "I also love everyone else inside you, I love the whole world because of you, I also love myself inside you." -- Erich Fromm, the Art of Love |
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brunette
Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 51
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Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah,I think this is stupid,too. In fact I have never thought there was such a necessity to change this translation into another, for I knew it won't really cause any cultural misunderstandings to u wise people, who are well-informed of cultural differences and take for granted that the whole world think just like u guys.
But the Chinese government and its so-called experts are doing something more ridiculous, trust me, it is out of ur imagination. I feel to ashamed to mention here what those boneheads are gonna do to the totem of our nation. But if u r a Chinese, PLEASE DO SOMETHING!!!!!We have lost too much cultural heritage, and Loong is the last thing we can afford to lose!
By the way, ad-miral, I am so glad to hear that u r aware of the difference in image and thank u so much for the illustration. But perhaps u've known more that just that? A difference in image isn't worth making the fuss. Loong is an imaginary creature, something Chinese people have been worshiping since prehistoric times. Legend has it that Da Yu couldn't have been able to cope with the flood without the help of a Loong, in other words, it helped us to survive.In Chinese culture, it mostly simbolizes power and sublimeness. It is so untouchable, yet so protective of our people. It soars above the cloud, yet roves in the deep sea. there r Loongs taking charge of the storms, sea tide, and the mountain, yet there r Loongs only controlling a well or a pond. Some can shoot flames, some can exhale air cold enough to freeze the sea. In a word, we worship its mightiness, meanwhile ask for its bless and protection. |
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brunette
Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 51
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Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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Now I don't think u need me to further explain the difference between a western dragon and a Chinese Loong, do u? U know much better than me about the symbolicalness of a dragon. |
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brunette
Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 51
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Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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brunette wrote: |
Now I don't think u need me to further explain the difference between a western dragon and a Chinese Loong, do u? U know much better than me about the symbolicalness of a dragon. |
sorry, the symbolism of a dragon. |
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Lorikeet

Joined: 08 Oct 2005 Posts: 1877 Location: San Francisco
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Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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What is the Chinese government doing? |
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brunette
Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 51
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Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:23 am Post subject: |
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Hoho! the news turned out to be a false alarm, or, it seems to be one.
Yesterday, many Chinese people Choked on a news in the morning newspapers about a natinal funded research subject. According to the news, the experts are considering to stop using Loong as the symbol of China, because "its image and symbolism is twisted by some western countries, who has taken it as the eastern equivalent of dragon, forbidding, evil and fond of making attacks. We'd rather choose an image with more implication on harmony." And it is reported that the government will probably adopt their recommendation after the research is done.
Maybe our government is too desperate to get rid of the China Threat, but as far as most people are concerned it couldn't be more ridiculous to change a culture because of a translation fallacy. Maybe the "experts" really need to do something to get paid,but they really pissed the whole nation off. Tens of millions of people protested on line yesterday, making the news the hottest one. On all surveys online the people who were against it took up more than 95%. And that is why I came here yesterday, thinking that's the only thing I can do aside from complaining and cursing.
And today we witnessed something very dramatic. The reporter of that news came out to confess he made a mistake by adding something the experts hadn't mentioned at all. And the experts, according to the same newspaper, confirmed that Loong's status in China is never to be shaken. People are embarrassed and relieved. That was close!However, I think from now on, u'll often hear people say "Loong" instead of dragon. |
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ad-miral

Joined: 01 Sep 2006 Posts: 1488
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Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:28 am Post subject: |
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I think it's called "long" and not "loong"
And however I think the government has more important things to do. _________________ If I say "I love you" to someone, then I also have to say "I also love everyone else inside you, I love the whole world because of you, I also love myself inside you." -- Erich Fromm, the Art of Love |
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8527
Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Posts: 2
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Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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Stupid government.
mascots for Olympics 2008
at first friedliness
then Fuwa. |
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brunette
Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 51
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Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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ad-miral wrote: |
I think it's called "long" and not "loong"
And however I think the government has more important things to do. |
are u a Chinese, ad-miral? If u are please visit www.loong.cn ,and u'll see why we prefer Loong to Long.
8527, I don't like the 2008 Olympics' mascots, either. In fact most people wanted to have Loong as the mascot, there were many lovely cartoon loongs at that time. But the experts' "they're to be misunderstood as evil" crap fooled the government again. |
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ad-miral

Joined: 01 Sep 2006 Posts: 1488
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Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:27 am Post subject: |
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I don't know what to say. I think it's a bit exaggerated.
The westeners have western dragon, the Chinese have Chinese dragon. Don't know why we have to invent another vocabulary.
Hey, I agree, the guys who painted these cartoons are not very good. But they are only newspaper workers who want to attract attention. Do you know the "Mohammed-cartoon?" It arose a lot of critique, too.
But the Westerners don't mean it as an offense, that's the point. _________________ If I say "I love you" to someone, then I also have to say "I also love everyone else inside you, I love the whole world because of you, I also love myself inside you." -- Erich Fromm, the Art of Love |
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brunette
Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 51
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Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:56 am Post subject: |
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ad-miral wrote: |
I don't know what to say. I think it's a bit exaggerated.
The westeners have western dragon, the Chinese have Chinese dragon. Don't know why we have to invent another vocabulary.
Hey, I agree, the guys who painted these cartoons are not very good. But they are only newspaper workers who want to attract attention. Do you know the "Mohammed-cartoon?" It arose a lot of critique, too.
But the Westerners don't mean it as an offense, that's the point. |
So you know that they are disparate, don't you? They look different, act differently, and are viewed differently. Have you ever heard a "dragon" could bring fortune and harmony to the world? Well, loong can, in Chinese people's heart. We have loongs in our idoms which have auspicious indication, such as 龙凤呈祥, In a traditional Chinese wedding, the bedclothes should have loong and pheonix on it, which indicates love and harmony. At the international sports meetings, the Chinese team is called the team of loong, with the hope that our athelets should be as fearless and persevering as loong. Chinese people believe we are descendants of loong, and if we unite together, (however hard it maybe), we can be as powerful as loong.
I know people like you, ad-miral, who know this cultural difference very well, are quite accustomed to this translation and feel very reluctant for a change. however, I think this correction is necessary, or, "Kongfu", as you are quite accustomed,too, might as well be called "boxing". Please don't take it for granted that the whole world know as well as you do about a Chinese loong provided that the only thing they've heard relevant to it is "dragon". Ok, maybe some of them know there are difference, but what are the differences, they never bother to figure out.
My opinion is, as a translator, it is his job to help two cultures communicate with each other equally, not to deliberately put either of them on a dominating position, whose way of thinking is used to explain everything in the other culture, including those that are unique in the latter. So, the one who first translate loong into dragon did a disservice to Chinese culture. Indeed.
Last edited by brunette on Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:25 am; edited 2 times in total |
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brunette
Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 51
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Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:36 am Post subject: |
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To ad-miral
It 's not been something new that some westerners have fun in torturing what people in other culture have faith in and end up with "no offense". I heard something about that cartoon event, too. In fact, it is not really the misunderstanding of loong that made people infuriated. As a nation we have a consensus that it's quite natural for other people in the world to have their own way of thinking, to have their own faith, and to have misunderstandings about our own culture. We know about the nickname of the anti-China guys in the American government, "dragon-slayers", and we feel it kind of make sense to them and have no objection to that, in fact we feel it's kind of fun.
But what we feel so upset about is a few of our own people are doing everything to make our culture subordinate. To them everything should be done in the western (mostly American) way. If the foreigners have misunderstandings about one point of our culture, these guys want the cultures be changed or removed to make the foreigners feel acceptable. The Loong event, though a false alarm, has reminded us that the problem of the loss of cultural heritage is not something we can sleep over. It's time to take actions.
Last edited by brunette on Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:27 am; edited 1 time in total |
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beancurdturtle

Joined: 23 Aug 2006 Posts: 1041 Location: Southern California
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Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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There are also dragons in two different ancient cultures from South America. They are probably in nearly every ancient culture. To be concerned about the name is interesting - but I'm most fascinated by the fact that the myth is so pervasive.
Why are dragons (or whatever you call them) in almost every culture?
Does it mean that they existed?
Does it mean that all of our ancient myths come from a similar root source?
Does it mean that all humans have a common seed of imagination and the same "monsters" deep in our mind?
Those questions interest me more than the name. And maybe they point to something that says there is more in common to all of us - all over the world - than we know. _________________ Daniel
�Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.�
--Dr. Seuss |
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