Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[hela]

Dear teachers,

Would you please tell me what's the difference between the words "barbarism" and "solecism" ?

Would you say that a sentence such as "My mother seems has grown young again" is an example of solecism ? (= pure nonsense ?)

Best regards,
Hela

[battlecryorsilence]

The two terms are subtly different. A solecism is a violation of grammar, or a nonstandard usage of a word or phrase. Barbarism generally refers to the actual act of violating the grammar or making the nonstandard usage -- the act (or practice) of using a solecism or solecisms. One uses or employs a solicism; one commits barbarism, or an act of barbarism.

Example:

"Did you notice that all of his sentences contain solecisms? How barbaric!"

Notice also that a sentence may still convey some, even most, of its semantic value even if it includes a solecism. For instance, I would assume that your example sentence should actually be something like, "My mother seems to have grown young again", or, "My mother seems young again." Most of the intended meaning might still be apparent to a well-practiced English speaker or a native speaker. Thus, such a sentence can be, but needn't be, pure nonsense.

[hela]

So would you consider it a solecism ?

Thank you for your help.

[battlecryorsilence]

Hi Hela,

Yes, the sentence "My mother seems has grown young again" does contain a solecism, the evidence of which is "seems has grown". In other words, it is the construction "seems has grown" which must, necessarily, be modified in order to produce a sentence with no solecism.

More examples of the use of the two terms:

Yes, your example sentence does contain a solecism.
The sentence is an example of barbarism.

I hope I've answered your question this time! I apologize that I didn't give a direct answer to your question in my original reply. Also, my apologies for the typo in the fourth line of that reply ("solicism" should, of course, be "solecism").

N.B. In addition to its technical usage, the adjective "barbaric" has acquired a decidedly pejorative sense in English -- we might refer to a crude person as "barbaric". The ordinary speaker is usually more familiar with this latter sense of the word than with its technical sense. Thus, "barbaric" might be considered too strong a criticism for, say, a grammar error made by an English student on an exam.

[hela]

Dear battlecry, thank you for your comments.

What you consider barbaric in "Yes, your example sentence does contain a solecism" is the use of "example sentence"?

See you

[battlecryorsilence]

Hi Hela,

I am so sorry for the confusion. No; "example sentence" is a compound word, which English speakers (and teachers) prefer to the noun phrase "exemplary sentence." There was no solecism in the sentence, "Your example sentence contains a solecism" -- I meant that your original sentence, "My other seems has grown young again", contains a solecism. Similarly, in my second sentence, I meant, "The sentence 'my mother seems has grown young again' is an example of barbarism."
Teachers often make uses of "example sentences" or "sample sentences" when explaining grammar. These compound words are somewhat idiomatic, I suppose. Again, my apologies for the confusion.

[hela]

Hello again Battlecry,

Sorry for this misunderstanding This shows how my English is still weak!

Now which of the following do you you consider an example of barbarism?

"My mother has looked younger since she dyed her hair." OR
"My mother looks younger since she dyed her hair."

Would you please have a look at my thread "tenses with 'since'" and give me your view about the question?

Best regards

[battlecryorsilence]

Hi Hela,

Absolutely no need to apologize! On the contrary, you seem to have a very good command of English.
In answer to your question, I would say that neither sentence contains a solecism, and neither sentence is an example of barbarism. The reason? Both sentence constructions can be justified. "My mother has looked younger since she dyed her hair" is justified by the standard rules governing tenses and adverbial clauses. However, the construction "My mother looks younger since she dyed her hair" is actually far more common in spoken English, so the construction is justified by the rules of descriptive grammar. In other words, then, both sentences would be considered grammatically correct.

I have taken a look at your thread "tenses with 'since'" and will post a detailed reply there.