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ad-miral
Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 1488
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 Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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The first settlers on the American highland were Spanish settlers on the East coast. They had to fight through the uncivilised regions, build their towns out from empty nature, fight their towns against Indians etc. Through this moving West, these settlers got an American culture of adventure and self-consciousness, the American cullture.
So what beancurdturtle says is right. Other countries have to show Bush his borders... How bad that America is so trong now...
That's why I say, that too much power is bad. Everybody is born same, and everybody should have the same rights. And that's why I still think that esl-club is very bad because they threw me out...  |
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Yinglish
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 99
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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Students of the English language should learn the variations of this common adage:
"An opinion is like a nose -- everybody has one."
To be on topic, I wish for world peace. |
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k.m.m
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 121
Location: Riyadh
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| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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Democracy can not be implemented by force, I think it is accumulation of cultural progress..
You cant write on your door we have a democracy here and inside you are a dictator against your wife and your kids..
Democracy starts from house, school, T.V...Etc� Never ever by F15 and B52.., world with out Saddamm etc.and it is never because of OIL. If the people forced to accept some system it will remain for temporary and the whole thing, money, life of soldiers, are all waste and cause of criminality..
May be you free a country" any" from its dictator regime by force, but you can not make the people act in a democratic way.......Then the country definitely will go for a civil war.
kmm |
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beancurdturtle
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 1041
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:11 am Post subject: |
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| Yinglish wrote: |
Students of the English language should learn the variations of this common adage:
"An opinion is like a nose -- everybody has one."
To be on topic, I wish for world peace. |
It is a cliche phrase, and a logical fallacy.
A nose cannot be validated by objective facts - an opinion can be.
Can you so casually dismiss opinion about a war, with a cliche phrase that is a logical fallacy?
If you wish for world peace, it seems you would not casually dismiss war.
_________________
Daniel
�Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.�
--Dr. Seuss |
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ad-miral
Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 1488
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:54 am Post subject: |
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yeah, seems very logical.
Everybody can have another opinion but the situation only allows certain opinions to be realized and other opinions aren't allowed, in order not to damage the "world peace".
Haha peeeaaace... that's what America needs |
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beancurdturtle
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 1041
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:25 am Post subject: |
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The U.S. needs a new President who is not so ignorant, who has some empathy, and is not a cultural and theological chauvinist.
Well, that's just one thing the U.S. needs. 
_________________
Daniel
�Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.�
--Dr. Seuss |
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Anuradha Chepur
Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 933
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| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:06 am Post subject: |
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I agree that democracy can't be enforced. Actually it is dictatorship that can be enforced.
Nevertheless, attempts have to be made and initially all attempts will/may fail! The kind of change we are looking forward to is evolutionary, but has to be initiated by some kind of a revolution.
I also agree that "democracy is a result of cultural progress", as KMM says. I liked that statement.
Only thing is dictators will not allow any progress, which is not in their interest. |
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ad-miral
Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 1488
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| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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Well I think every government has the possibility to function and every government has the possibility not to function. We can say: "Democracy is good because democracy gives people a relatively high living standart."
But it doesn't mean that every government has to be democratic or die. Of course democracy is good, but first a government must know for sure, that most citizen have a financial income and a good life. Only then, if there is not such a great variety inside the folk any more, only then a democracy seems appropiate.
You can't force other cultures to be democratic. That's like you force a crying child to laugh by punching on him.
As beancurdturtle said, the striking idea of Bush is not democracy in Iraq, but oil. I think by now everyone knows that. If I may come back to the original question of the post: "What do you think about the new Bush's policy", I think it's just a crime supported by a lie. |
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Bob S.
Joined: 29 Apr 2004
Posts: 1767
Location: So. Cal
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| Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| beancurdturtle wrote: |
| Yinglish wrote: |
"An opinion is like a nose -- everybody has one."
To be on topic, I wish for world peace. |
It is a cliche phrase, and a logical fallacy.
A nose cannot be validated by objective facts - an opinion can be. |
Not necessarily. The clich� only states the existence of an opinion (like which ice cream flavor is best), not the quality. What you need is Bob's Corollary on the Quality of Opinions: Opinions are like a sense of humor, everybody thinks they have a good one. 
| Anuradha Chepur wrote: |
| That is comparing a square and a circle. |
Is that anything like comparing apples and oranges? 
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| Bush policy is neither greed nor altruism, but enlightened self-interest. |
Maybe. Or maybe it's more rational self interest. A difference of semantics. The idea is simple enough: This democracy thing benefits us, it will benefit you too, so take it whether you like it or not (because it will also make you easier to deal with in a region that is critical to our economy). It's not as sinister as the concept of "Imperial America". But the problem with that idea (not counting the hubris of it) is:
| k.m.m wrote: |
| Democracy can not be implemented by force, I think it is accumulation of cultural progress.. |
Right! The places where it has worked (post-WWII West Germany, Japan, et al) already had some history of democratic tradition before they were taken over by democratically elected fascists (scary thought). Few nations in the Middle East have such traditions. The jury is still out on whether Iraq will ever take to democracy, but I don't have much hope. Firstly because Bush is such an incompetent frakhead (I'm seethingly disgusted with him for other reasons), and secondly because there are better ideas on how to adapt to a primitive feudalistic society that are just being ignored.
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"It is impossible to speak in such a way that you cannot be misunderstood." -- Karl Popper |
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beancurdturtle
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 1041
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Bob S. wrote: |
| It's not as sinister as the concept of "Imperial America". |
The problem is - Imperial America, a "Pax Americana" is not a concept. It's a plan that has been in existence since before 1997. A plan cooked up by many who are now in places of enormous influence in the Bush administration. All the way up to *beep* Cheney (who picked himself as the Vice President).
I guess you didn't follow the links I provided or, like so many, you may think it's a fake site pushing a conspiracy theory. If you actually read the documents at the links I provided and believe that there was not a plan for an imperialistic America, then we have a difference of interpretation.
Don't take this the wrong way. It's just my observation, not a personal attack or criticism.
_________________
Daniel
�Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.�
--Dr. Seuss |
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Bob S.
Joined: 29 Apr 2004
Posts: 1767
Location: So. Cal
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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| beancurdturtle wrote: |
I guess you didn't follow the links I provided or, like so many, you may think it's a fake site pushing a conspiracy theory. If you actually read the documents at the links I provided and believe that there was not a plan for an imperialistic America, then we have a difference of interpretation.
Don't take this the wrong way. It's just my observation, not a personal attack or criticism. |
I read it, and I don't think it's a fake site. But I do think you are reading far too much into it than is really there.
When I think Empire, I think Roman legions storming into neighboring countries, enslaving the local population, and sending tribute back to Caesar, or a network of British colonies with royal appointments of British governors and vice roys lording over a native population. Maybe your idea of Empire is different.
When you get past all the highfalutin language of the "New American Century" web site, that model is hardly what they are advocating. Mostly they are whining about the reduced strength of a Post-Cold-War military and the need to strengthen it to defend and promote our interests and values around the world. What those interests and values are and where in the world they might be protected is a matter of constant debate.
But we'll know for sure if your fears are justified in January 2009 if/when Bush declares himself Grand Poobah for Life right before the inauguration of President Elect Clinton-Obama-Giuliani-Romney (at which point I'll have to humbly admit you were correct all along right before he shuts down the internet to prevent our dissent).
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"It is impossible to speak in such a way that you cannot be misunderstood." -- Karl Popper |
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beancurdturtle
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 1041
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Bob S. wrote: |
| But we'll know for sure if your fears are justified in January 2009 if/when Bush declares himself Grand Poobah for Life right before the inauguration of President Elect Clinton-Obama-Giuliani-Romney (at which point I'll have to humbly admit you were correct all along right before he shuts down the internet to prevent our dissent). |
Terrific answer as always Mr. Bob S.
Gave me a good chuckle!
Perhaps you should run for President.
_________________
Daniel
�Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.�
--Dr. Seuss |
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Anuradha Chepur
Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 933
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:25 am Post subject: |
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Bob wrote
| Quote: |
| Is that anything like comparing apples and oranges? |
It is for sure.
Our teacher used to tell us to avoid cliches and be creative instead.
Sometimes she used to make us do exercises like the ones here. |
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Bob S.
Joined: 29 Apr 2004
Posts: 1767
Location: So. Cal
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| Anuradha Chepur wrote: |
| Sometimes she used to make us do exercises like the ones here. |
Hey, that's pretty good! It makes for a good mental exercise trying to figure out how to rewrite the paragraph with no clich�s.
| beancurdturtle wrote: |
| Perhaps you should run for President. |
Naw. Too many people still alive who know where the bodies are buried. (clich� clich�)
_________________
"It is impossible to speak in such a way that you cannot be misunderstood." -- Karl Popper |
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ad-miral
Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 1488
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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| BobS. wrote: |
When I think Empire, I think Roman legions storming into neighboring countries, enslaving the local population, and sending tribute back to Caesar, or a network of British colonies with royal appointments of British governors and vice roys lording over a native population. Maybe your idea of Empire is different.
When you get past all the highfalutin language of the "New American Century" web site, that model is hardly what they are advocating. Mostly they are whining about the reduced strength of a Post-Cold-War military and the need to strengthen it to defend and promote our interests and values around the world. What those interests and values are and where in the world they might be protected is a matter of constant debate.
But we'll know for sure if your fears are justified in January 2009 if/when Bush declares himself Grand Poobah for Life right before the inauguration of President Elect Clinton-Obama-Giuliani-Romney (at which point I'll have to humbly admit you were correct all along right before he shuts down the internet to prevent our dissent). |
Wow... What a wonderful posting... I think you can earn money if you sell this posting. What's a Grand Poobah for Life?
And according Anuradha Chepur: What your teacher said is for the school. Here we are in a creative forum. And Bob's posting is just pure creation�. Don't let him change this style. |
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