Teacher Discussion Forums

Someone over on the Job Discussion forums (on a thread entiled 'The Secret Code of TEFL', if you really must know - and it's actually about half-truths or even outright porkies in the wording of job adverts than about grammar ) was off-topically opining that textbooks like Cutting Edge apparently calling 'have got' the 'simple present' should somehow be considered so very wrong (the implication I assume being that it is technically/formally - though not, at least IMHO, functionally - 'present perfect ("tense")').

Of course I have my own thoughts and opinions on this matter (" ~ "?), but thought I'd throw it open to hopefully savage no-holds-barred debate here from others first before any possible frothing about it myself!

fluffyhamster wrote:Someone over on the Job Discussion forums (on a thread entiled 'The Secret Code of TEFL', if you really must know - and it's actually about half-truths or even outright porkies in the wording of job adverts than about grammar ) was off-topically opining that textbooks like Cutting Edge apparently calling 'have got' the 'simple present' should somehow be considered so very wrong (the implication I assume being that it is technically/formally - though not, at least IMHO, functionally - 'present perfect ("tense")').

Of course I have my own thoughts and opinions on this matter (" ~ "?), but thought I'd throw it open to hopefully savage no-holds-barred debate here from others first before any possible frothing about it myself!

It's especially interesting in American English, where the past participle of "get" is "gotten" and not "got". "I've got many ideas" and "I've gotten many ideas" are not the same meaning to me, if that applies to your comment.

Hi Lori! That's a good pair of examples. I'd sort of considered the got/gotten difference ("simple possession" versus "process" i.e. less complex versus more complex past participle) about a year ago (here: http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic ... 587#777587 ), but more in a context of only one of the forms making the most sense, being the most frequently used probably (I've got a headache versus ?I've gotten a headache).

Anyway, I suppose the clearest way to show the difference between "genuine present perfect" and simple present (for anyone who has a real problem with the likes of the Cutting Edge terms*) would involve using adjectives (in describing "changes of state"/"end results of processes") rather than nouns: *I've/I have fat (="I'm/I am fat") versus I've got/gotten (=become) fat. (Or one could just have the use of 'get' by itself, in and of itself, to which any addition of perfect aspect should be easy enough to appreciate: I get fat eating peanuts; I got (was) so fat last year that I had to join a gym).

*Or they could simply be referred to e.g. Leech et al's An A-Z of English Grammar & Usage (the first reference book within easy reach that I've now consulted at all in relation to this topic! Silly "lazy" me! ): "have got (verb idiom) have got is Present Perfect in form, but its meaning is usually (in the sense of 'possess', versus the 'become' or 'obtain' meaning of have got/have gotten - FH) the same as a Present Simple."

"get" is one of the most malleable verbs in English.

"They have got an appointment.
They have got to go.
They have gotten married.
They got to meet Noam Chomsky.
They haven't gotten over it."

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