Is YESTERDAY a past time?

Xui · Post by **Xui** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:38 am

I don't know what is "poll" in this forum. I ticked "poll question", and the message was disappeared. This time, I didn't tick it.

Is YESTERDAY a past time?

If yes, I don't know how to define past.

When we were a child and could not analyze anything, we were taught that YESTERDAY is a definite past time adverb (so we use Simple Past). But now we may ask, how to define it as past?

Say, I agree 25April2003 is a past, because it is definitely past and we don't have another 25April2003. It is gone and never comes back anew. However, we will forever have a new YESTERDAY!! If we regard 25April2003 as YESTERDAY, on the next day, we will call 26April2003 as YESTERDAY. On another day, we have another day of YESTERDAY: 27April2003. Even today, we still have YESTERDAY. I guess that tomorrow we may still have another new YESTERDAY. Therefore, YESTERDAY is never gone, and never ended, and thus never past.

If so, how comes we say YESTERDAY is a past time? Ultimately, what is the standard to define a time as past?

Your opinion is welcome.

Xui
========
I will remind myself not to deliberately watch messages from some academic figures.

Duncan Powrie · Post by **Duncan Powrie** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 12:31 pm

Well done, Shun! Congratulations! This must be your most incomprehensible and pointless post yet!

Yesterday is always relative to today; it seems natural that it will become a different day just as "tomorrow" becomes "today" as time marches on. It is simple really: there is a block of three days, labelled in distinction to each other, that creeps forward through "the calendar".

Xui · Post by **Xui** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:16 am

This is an updated version

Is YESTERDAY a past time?

If yes, I don't know how to define past. Please tell us how to define a time as past!!

When we were a child and could not analyze anything, we were taught that YESTERDAY is a definite past time adverb (so we use Simple Past). But as now we some common sense, we may ask, how to define it as past? As long as we have today, there is YESTERDAY. Since today will not be ended and past, so will not YESTERDAY. You may say it is a relative past, but it is not a definite past. But as we shall see below, it is not even past at all.

To be fair, however, we admit there is past time. We agree 25April2003 is a past, because we don't have another 25April2003 again. It has gone and never comes back anew, so it is past. We actually understand what is past. However, we will forever have a new YESTERDAY!! If we regard 25April2003 as YESTERDAY, on the next day, we will call 26April2003 as YESTERDAY. On another day, we still have another YESTERDAY: 27April2003. Even today, we still have YESTERDAY. Deductive reasoning and common sense tell us that tomorrow we may still have another new YESTERDAY, so will next week. But if in the future we still have another new YESTERDAY, which has not yet come by now, how can we say it is past? It is not even a past at all.

If YESTERDAY is forever here and never gone, how comes they say YESTERDAY is a past time? Even worse, how can they conclude YESTERDAY is a definite past?

Ultimately, the basic question is, what is the standard to define a time as past, even a definite past?

Your opinion is welcome.

Xui

Duncan Powrie · Post by **Duncan Powrie** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:48 am

Still making absolutely no sense to anyone, Shun. Just thought I should point that out to you, although judging from the lack of replies, it should be obvious enough.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:09 am

Why not just think of a "before now" time?

Xui · Post by **Xui** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:26 am

metal56 wrote:Why not just think of a "before now" time?
================

Hi Metal56,

I want to find something for a middle school student to ask a teacher more easily.
"How to define a time as past, sir?"
"Is YESTERDAY a past time, sir?"
With my information, a student would know a lot more than the teacher.

These questions are easier to ask than "What is a 'before now' time, sir?"

Don't worry, any teacher can bully a student into silence. It is just for fun.

Xui · Post by **Xui** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:45 am

metal56 wrote:Why not just think of a "before now" time?
================

"Before now" can define nothing. Actually, anything at the present has started before now.

If we say "Mr A is a teacher", for example, we cannot possibly imply he is one only at the present time we talk about him in Simple Present, never in the past, and never in the future. Anything now has actually started from "before now".

Therefore, "before now" is not the characteristic or definition of a past. This is why it is difficult to define what is past.

Xui

Duncan Powrie · Post by **Duncan Powrie** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 2:02 am

Absolute drivel. Grade: F -

Roger · Post by **Roger** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:41 am

Hi Xui!
Your dilemma is due to some misunderstanding!
WHile YESTERDAY is a marker of something in the past, what actually determines whether you may use the simple past tense or another tense is: the VERB you are using.
For instance:
Yesterday WAS Saturday!

Saturday ended at midnight before Sunday began.

But:
Since YESTERDAY, I have been feeling a headache!

Your headache hasn't ceased to trouble you in a time that spans the midnight time divide. It may in fact still go on on MONDAY.

PAST is a TENSE: Simple past, past continuous, etc. Yesterday is NOT a past tense! It defines some part of the past.

Xui · Post by **Xui** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:16 am

Roger,

You wrote: WHile YESTERDAY is a marker of something in the past, what actually determines whether you may use the simple past tense or another tense is: the VERB you are using.
For instance:
Yesterday WAS Saturday!

I would like to ask, why YESTERDAY determines Simple Past?

Then you must say, "because it is a specific past time".

My dilemma is, you didn't explain why it is a specific past time, while I have proven it is not even a past time at all.

And then you must argue, "I did, actually I have already downgraded it as not wholly a definite past":

You wrote: Yesterday is NOT a past tense! It defines some part of the past .

However, as I explained above, even Simple Present "Mr B is a teacher too" must be some part of the past!!! Read me again: He cannot be a teacher ONLY when I mention him at the present time, and never was one in the past. His teaching must have started in the past. That is to say, "Mr B is a teacher too" is some part of the past.

Your dilemma is, why does some part of the past sometimes use Simple Present: "Mr B is a teacher too", and sometimes Simple Past: "Yesterday WAS Saturday!"

If I have a designed dilemma, we all have real dilemmas!!

Xui

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:31 pm

Xui wrote:Roger,

You wrote: WHile YESTERDAY is a marker of something in the past, what actually determines whether you may use the simple past tense or another tense is: the VERB you are using.
For instance:
Yesterday WAS Saturday!
I would like to ask, why YESTERDAY determines Simple Past?

Then you must say, "because it is a specific past time".

My dilemma is, you didn't explain why it is a specific past time, while I have proven it is not even a past time at all.

And then you must argue, "I did, actually I have already downgraded it as not wholly a definite past":
You wrote: Yesterday is NOT a past tense! It defines some part of the past .

However, as I explained above, even Simple Present "Mr B is a teacher too" must be some part of the past!!! Read me again: He cannot be a teacher ONLY when I mention him at the present time, and never was one in the past. His teaching must have started in the past. That is to say, "Mr B is a teacher too" is some part of the past.

Your dilemma is, why does some part of the past sometimes use Simple Present: "Mr B is a teacher too", and sometimes Simple Past: "Yesterday WAS Saturday!"

If I have a designed dilemma, we all have real dilemmas!!

Xui

Yawn! Do you have a discussion point that could keep me awake?

Xui · Post by **Xui** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:25 pm

metal56 wrote:Yawn! Do you have a discussion point that could keep me awake?

It is not fair, Metal56. I have posted the answer here, there, and everywhere for several times. Everyone knows about it. All the questions have pointed to the same answer, which is a piece of cake. You didn't believe the answer, it is OK. But how comes you say I keep it to myself?

Get some rest!!

Xui

Xui · Post by **Xui** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:40 pm

Metal56,

Here is the proof that I have repeated the topic, thus with the answer, for several times:

Duncan Powrie wrote:Shun, if memory serves me correctly, this topic was discussed at quite some length several months ago.
============

Did Duncan ever lie to you? Can't you see people are annoyed because I have repeated the trite topics/answers for so many times?

Xui

Duncan Powrie · Post by **Duncan Powrie** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 3:23 pm

Shun, that quote you've taken is from something I wrote on your "Highly selected (sic) selfish examples" thread - it is not from this thread at all. Quite why you've taken my words out of their proper context (where you were, indeed, repeating yourself blatantly) is beyond me, but let's just say, you aren't going to improve your general image and standing much by doing so.

You really have written total crap on that "selfish examples" thread: nobody would agree that you are correct in your negative assessment of the better of the available grammars.

In this, your "Is YESTERDAY a past time?" (why the capitalization?!), and also in your "The Beginning Of The Confusion" (take a look at how to capitalize words in titles, you are quite inconsistent it seems) threads, you are totally incomprehensible. You aren't much clearer on your "The Routine On Yesterday" thread.

Only in your (repeated?) "How far have we got with the Present Perfect?" thread have you finally made an effort to write at all lucidly, but again, do you ultimately have a point?

Yes, Present Perfect is not easy, and to teach it well requires a lot of thought about where exactly we are going to place it in relation to especially Simple Past, and what aspects of it we are going to emphasize most, and in which order etc. It is sometimes not given enough thought, or glossed over, but you seem to be wrong about the grammars yet again, and you certainly aren't offering any helpful pedagogical tips of your own anywhere to help inprove matters. You are just wailing like that stupid b*tch Agnes

.

I will switch over to the "Present Perfect" thread soon, to continue this. See y'all there.

Xui · Post by **Xui** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 3:50 pm

Duncan Powrie wrote:Shun, that quote you've taken is from something I wrote on your "Highly selected (sic) selfish examples" thread - it is not from this thread at all.

All the questions here from me are pointing to the same old answer. You can answer one, and you can answer all. Tell me if there is one question answered. I did post the answer here before, more than a few times, even in the previous Applied Linguistics when it was open to all.

They are only new wine in an old bottle. How possibly can I create any new question?

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