A native-speaker survey

Harzer · Post by **Harzer** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 12:13 am

For me they are all 'would' except for no. 4, where 'should' has modal meaning = strong expectation.

Harzer

woodcutter · Post by **woodcutter** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:57 am

I should be grateful if you would tell me why you are all so picky (said Alice, before charging off after the white rabbit).

If you should find the time, please do.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 6:41 am

woodcutter wrote:I should be grateful if you would tell me why you are all so picky (said Alice, before charging off after the white rabbit).

If you should find the time, please do.

Did you do the survey, Woody?

woodcutter · Post by **woodcutter** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 7:30 am

I am at peace with all possibilities.

revel · Post by **revel** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 9:11 am

Hey all!

I also agree with all the comments/possiblities offered up to now.

peace,
revel.

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 10:33 am

Surely the fact that the "Alice" example is highly stylised, educated 19th century English tells us something about the use of should in this context.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 10:47 am

lolwhites wrote:Surely the fact that the "Alice" example is highly stylised, educated 19th century English tells us something about the use of should in this context.

<Surely the fact that the "Alice" example is highly stylised, educated 19th century English tells us something about the use of should in this context.>

Why should it? I've had lots of shoulds over woulds on other fora.

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 10:55 am

So what do you think the effect would be of substituting with would in the example, metal?

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:02 pm

lolwhites wrote:So what do you think the effect would be of substituting with would in the example, metal?

My choice:

1. We should/would be delighted to ask our representative to call.
2. We should/would like once more to apologise for the inconvenience you have been caused.
3. We should/would be grateful if you could despatch the orders by return.
4. The work should/would take about 3 months if we are able to start on the 1st of April.
5. We should/would be grateful if you would (or nothing) pass on this information to your client.

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:26 pm

OOPS. I agreed wholeheartedly with lolwhites about 3, but for some reason, I didn't spot that 5 began in the same way (probably the second gap distracted me). For 5, I'd rather say would+would, then.

It just sounds really odd to my ears to say "We should be grateful if you..." (and "should" following "you..." there is definitely a no-no), a bit stuck-up or gonna rub people the wrong way up...

Generally, I'd prefer "would" in ALL the gaps except 4 (where "should" sounds more reassuring than "would", and where "will", if it were a choice, might be the most reassuring modal of all to hear from them cowboy builders you're beginning to regret hiring).

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:21 pm

Metal, I'm not asking which you think are possible but whether you think the meaning is the same. Do you think that We would like to apologise... carries the same meaning as We should like to apologise...? Although the English is fine I find the latter more formal to the point of sounding "stuffy". What's your view?

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 5:35 pm

lolwhites wrote:Metal, I'm not asking which you think are possible but whether you think the meaning is the same. Do you think that We would like to apologise... carries the same meaning as We should like to apologise...? Although the English is fine I find the latter more formal to the point of sounding "stuffy". What's your view?

I agree. A little stuffy.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 5:38 pm

fluffyhamster wrote:OOPS. I agreed wholeheartedly with lolwhites about 3, but for some reason, I didn't spot that 5 began in the same way (probably the second gap distracted me). For 5, I'd rather say would+would, then.

quote]

That's interesting. Many non-educationalists who took the survey opted for the same in 5 (would then would). Many teachers who took the survey said that they had been taught never to use two instances of would in one sentence.

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 7:22 pm

metal56 wrote:That's interesting. Many non-educationalists who took the survey opted for the same in 5 (would then would). Many teachers who took the survey said that they had been taught never to use two instances of would in one sentence.

Yeah, I was vaguely aware of that "injunction" as I made that post, but I thought, to hell with it, I'm not going to let silly stuff like that come between me and how I want to express myself. Guess I can pride myself on not always thinking too much like a teacher, then! I was taught hardly anything on my CTEFLA, and what little I have learnt since is avowedly descriptive rather than prescriptive.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 7:25 pm

fluffyhamster wrote:
metal56 wrote:That's interesting. Many non-educationalists who took the survey opted for the same in 5 (would then would). Many teachers who took the survey said that they had been taught never to use two instances of would in one sentence.
Yeah, I was vaguely aware of that "injunction" as I made that post, but I thought, to hell with it, I'm not going to let silly stuff like that come between me and how I want to express myself. Guess I can pride myself on not always thinking too much like a teacher, then! I was taught hardly anything on my CTEFLA, and what little I have learnt since is avowedly descriptive rather than prescriptive.

Hoorah!! More power to yer elbow!

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A native-speaker survey

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