Sorry, it's off-topic I know, but I've been trawling through the internet for an hour and I'm still none the wiser.
The pair of scissors is on the table.
That sounds ok
The pair of pants is blue.
Sounds strange
The pair of gloves is nice.
Sounds very strange to my ears.
I've got to teach the pattern:
A How much is this tie/sweater/pair of pants/pair of gloves?
B Which one?
A The red one
B It's $20
If it's a pair of pants or gloves, should B be saying "Which ones?" and "They are $20"?
Any ideas would be much appreciated because I have to teach this lesson tomorrow and I can't stay awake any longer.
the pair of pants is/are blue
Moderators: Dimitris, maneki neko2, Lorikeet, Enrico Palazzo, superpeach, cecil2, Mr. Kalgukshi2
Re: the pair of pants is/are blue
Why not teach the pattern:neil wrote:Sorry, it's off-topic I know, but I've been trawling through the internet for an hour and I'm still none the wiser.
The pair of scissors is on the table.
That sounds ok
The pair of pants is blue.
Sounds strange
The pair of gloves is nice.
Sounds very strange to my ears.
I've got to teach the pattern:
A How much is this tie/sweater/pair of pants/pair of gloves?
B Which one?
A The red one
B It's $20
If it's a pair of pants or gloves, should B be saying "Which ones?" and "They are $20"?
Any ideas would be much appreciated because I have to teach this lesson tomorrow and I can't stay awake any longer.
A How much is this tie/sweater/...are these pants/gloves?
B Which one? / Which ones?
A The red one / The red ones.
B It's $20 / They are $20
Actually, you could teach "How much are these ties?" too, explaining the strange English idea that "pants" is plural because it has two legs. (Don't think about shirts and their sleeves, though
)Thanks Lorikeet. The trouble is I'm following the textbooks (written by Chinese speakers I suspect) which have the pattern I mentioned, which go together with the workbooks and flashcards, so if I do as you mentioned I have to do a lot of crossing out and re-writing. I think I will probably do it anyway, as it seems a more natural way of speaking to me, but I'm still interested if anyone knows the answer to this. "The pair of scissors is on the table" is fine. "That pair are policemen" is fine. But what about "the pair of trousers" and "the pair of gloves"?
Ah. It's really tough when the natural way isn't the one that's in the book, and you have to figure out what to do about it. Aside from the problem that happens when you (at least I) say something over and over again to see if it sound right, and it starts sounding right because you heard it so much...neil wrote:Thanks Lorikeet. The trouble is I'm following the textbooks (written by Chinese speakers I suspect) which have the pattern I mentioned, which go together with the workbooks and flashcards, so if I do as you mentioned I have to do a lot of crossing out and re-writing. I think I will probably do it anyway, as it seems a more natural way of speaking to me, but I'm still interested if anyone knows the answer to this. "The pair of scissors is on the table" is fine. "That pair are policemen" is fine. But what about "the pair of trousers" and "the pair of gloves"?
"The pair of scissors is on the table." sounds fine to me too.
"The pair of trousers is in the closet." sounds a little funny, but
"The pair of green striped trousers is in the closet." sounds fine again.
And in a conversation,
"Do you know where the clothes I bought yesterday are?"
"Sure. The blouse is in the drawer and the pair of pants is in the closet." sounds okay, although I would probably use "the pants are" myself. (Heh, I noticed I changed to "pants" from "trousers".)
I also notice that if I say, "That pair of trousers/pants looks great on you." it sounds fine to me. Maybe the usage is interfering with what the grammar would be. In other words, it sounds "wrongish" because we don't use it quite that way.
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Senorita Daniels
- Posts: 202
- Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:11 pm
When you say a "pair of pants", the noun is pair, and "of pants" is an adjective describing the pair, so saying "The pair of pants is on the table." you are being gramatically correct, but we don't say pair of pants (gloves, trousers) often. If this doesn't come up too often, then I wouldn't worry, but I would rather stick to what they will use with native speakers.
Splitting hairs
Good morning!
First, have a look at this:
http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.p ... e=20010814
Then, ask yourself if you aren't splitting hairs here. Though it is not uncommon to say "pants" or "a pair of pants" and as discussed on another thread, the proximity of the noun to the verb will sometimes cause a speaker to use a "plural" form when a "singular" form is needed, in the end I'd just drill them on the structure and consider the "pair of" as a kind of curiosity in English that won't get in the way of communication. In the end, how many of these students will be chatting about "pants" in English with native speakers? I think the focus is on "How much is/are...." in the drill, as the remainder of the sentence is obviously a substitution slot.
peace,
revel.
First, have a look at this:
http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.p ... e=20010814
Then, ask yourself if you aren't splitting hairs here. Though it is not uncommon to say "pants" or "a pair of pants" and as discussed on another thread, the proximity of the noun to the verb will sometimes cause a speaker to use a "plural" form when a "singular" form is needed, in the end I'd just drill them on the structure and consider the "pair of" as a kind of curiosity in English that won't get in the way of communication. In the end, how many of these students will be chatting about "pants" in English with native speakers? I think the focus is on "How much is/are...." in the drill, as the remainder of the sentence is obviously a substitution slot.
peace,
revel.
Maybe it`s just me but...
"The pair of scissors is on the table."
"The pair of trousers is in the closet."
"The pair of green striped trousers is in the closet."
all sound horribly horribly wrong! It`s a simple case of Trousers/Scissors/Pants = Plural and so is ALWAYS "Are"
I`m not trying to be a snob or anything but where are you from? Since in the UK I`ve never heard anybody say anything like "Trousers is in the closet." Maybe it`s something that`s frequent in American English. Like I say I`m not trying to be condecending or anything, just curious because I`ve never heard anybody say that before.
"The pair of scissors is on the table."
"The pair of trousers is in the closet."
"The pair of green striped trousers is in the closet."
all sound horribly horribly wrong! It`s a simple case of Trousers/Scissors/Pants = Plural and so is ALWAYS "Are"
I`m not trying to be a snob or anything but where are you from? Since in the UK I`ve never heard anybody say anything like "Trousers is in the closet." Maybe it`s something that`s frequent in American English. Like I say I`m not trying to be condecending or anything, just curious because I`ve never heard anybody say that before.
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Andrew Patterson
- Posts: 922
- Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 7:59 pm
- Location: Poland
- Contact:
This sort of thing comes up from time to time. Unless you are taking the SATS exam you can use both. I'm not sure what SATS have dicided on this one and don't much care, either.
"A pair" is singular but "pants, scissors, etc" is plural. Either can be used to agree with the verb so you can choose the sigular or plural verb.
The same goes for words like "team" which can either be a single entity or a group of individuals depending on how you look at it.
"A pair" is singular but "pants, scissors, etc" is plural. Either can be used to agree with the verb so you can choose the sigular or plural verb.
The same goes for words like "team" which can either be a single entity or a group of individuals depending on how you look at it.