Two texts with different tense, but giving the same information.
1. Fortuneteller: I see a great future in front of you. You pass your exam, go to university and do well. Then, you marry into money and become businesswoman of the year before 2012.
2. Fortuneteller: I see a great future in front of you. You will pass your exam, go to university and do well. Then, you will marry into money and become businesswoman of the year before 2012.
Proposition:
I say that the speaker has chosen the present simple in the first text because she/he wants to bring the predicted events (psychologically) closer (give them immediacy) and to make them appear more possible/factual. In the second text, the choice of "will" give less immediacy/factuality and the possibility is weaker.
What do you think?
NB: Remember that the graphic present is used to give the past more immediacy. I think that the present simple is working in a similar way in text 1. above.
Immediacy
Moderators: Dimitris, maneki neko2, Lorikeet, Enrico Palazzo, superpeach, cecil2, Mr. Kalgukshi2
Rumanian Fortune Tellers
Good morning.
I see a middle-aged or even grandmotherly figure, sitting with a crystal ball, a head scarf, in a darkened room that smells closed. She sees things happening in the ball that are current in terms of the ball. And, she speaks English as a second language and never got to the lesson about using "will" to talk about the future. So I see a mixture of the immediacy of the images she is describing and her personal level/use of English as sources for using the present simple instead of a present continuous (which would be better for the description of the images in her ball) or even the "will" construction for the future. Otherwise the use of the present simple sounds stilted and forced to me.
She might also be using the present simple because she considers the predictions she is making to be fact, simple truths that ought to be presented in that structure. But I also see metal's point and the use might also be presenting immediacy.
peace,
revel.
I see a middle-aged or even grandmotherly figure, sitting with a crystal ball, a head scarf, in a darkened room that smells closed. She sees things happening in the ball that are current in terms of the ball. And, she speaks English as a second language and never got to the lesson about using "will" to talk about the future. So I see a mixture of the immediacy of the images she is describing and her personal level/use of English as sources for using the present simple instead of a present continuous (which would be better for the description of the images in her ball) or even the "will" construction for the future. Otherwise the use of the present simple sounds stilted and forced to me.
She might also be using the present simple because she considers the predictions she is making to be fact, simple truths that ought to be presented in that structure. But I also see metal's point and the use might also be presenting immediacy.
peace,
revel.
Re: Rumanian Fortune Tellers
For me, your second paragraph applies more than the first one. If you say that "We have a busy day tomorrow" is an inalienable truth (I assume you mean from the speaker's point-of-view), then why should the fortuneteller's words be seen as the same?revel wrote:Good morning.
I see a middle-aged or even grandmotherly figure, sitting with a crystal ball, a head scarf, in a darkened room that smells closed. She sees things happening in the ball that are current in terms of the ball. And, she speaks English as a second language and never got to the lesson about using "will" to talk about the future. So I see a mixture of the immediacy of the images she is describing and her personal level/use of English as sources for using the present simple instead of a present continuous (which would be better for the description of the images in her ball) or even the "will" construction for the future. Otherwise the use of the present simple sounds stilted and forced to me.
She might also be using the present simple because she considers the predictions she is making to be fact, simple truths that ought to be presented in that structure. But I also see metal's point and the use might also be presenting immediacy.
peace,
revel.
And would you see this as coming from a NNES?
Robber 1: OK, let's go through it again. I go in first and wave the gun around. You shout a lot and make everyone sit on the floor. Got it so far?
Robber 2: Erm...?
Selling the story.
.......
http://www.eharlequin.com.au/learn_grammar_tense.shtml
The present tense is what you should use to sell your story to an editor. Authors use it to write their synopses; critics and essayists write about great historical personas and events in it; and centuries after playwrights have passed on, we still speak of their characters using it. The present tense lends authority, importance, life. Use it to tell facts, regular (i.e., repetitive) action, and to show in-the-moment action.
.......
http://www.eharlequin.com.au/learn_grammar_tense.shtml
The present tense is what you should use to sell your story to an editor. Authors use it to write their synopses; critics and essayists write about great historical personas and events in it; and centuries after playwrights have passed on, we still speak of their characters using it. The present tense lends authority, importance, life. Use it to tell facts, regular (i.e., repetitive) action, and to show in-the-moment action.
For me, this pretty much sums up the difference between your "fortune teller" examples. In the first case, the person appears to be speaking with more authority, as though he or she is saying "these are the facts, independent of me". In the second, he or she is emphasising that this is their prediction i.e. there is a clearer connection between the speaker and the utterance.The present tense lends authority, importance, life. Use it to tell facts, regular (i.e., repetitive) action, and to show in-the-moment action
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JuanTwoThree
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Also , Fortune Teller version 1 is like the present tense used for jokes ( and the duck says .........) as well as like the "real time" commentator present described in the win/won thread (Beckham passes.........) . See also the headline present (Blair acts) and the historic immediacy present (1492 Columbus discovers America).
Most verb forms are reflections of other verb forms, as though everything is really reported speech:
At 9.00 I was getting dressed (It's 9.00 and I'm getting dressed)
At 9.10 I had got dressed (It's 9.10 and I've got dressed) etc
But there isn't an equivalent present simple speech bubble for "I'll get up at 10.00" or "I got up at 6.30". Unless it's a thought (Right, get up) or our lives have a Cosmic Commentary (It's 10.00 and John gets up, he goes to the bathroom and peers at his bloodshot eyes) of which futures and pasts describing single actions (not habits) are the futures and pasts.
Most verb forms are reflections of other verb forms, as though everything is really reported speech:
At 9.00 I was getting dressed (It's 9.00 and I'm getting dressed)
At 9.10 I had got dressed (It's 9.10 and I've got dressed) etc
But there isn't an equivalent present simple speech bubble for "I'll get up at 10.00" or "I got up at 6.30". Unless it's a thought (Right, get up) or our lives have a Cosmic Commentary (It's 10.00 and John gets up, he goes to the bathroom and peers at his bloodshot eyes) of which futures and pasts describing single actions (not habits) are the futures and pasts.