no difference here?

Seiichi MYOGA · Post by **Seiichi MYOGA** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:54 pm

Do you think we can replace "that" in (1a) with "it" and "it" in (1b) with "that"?

(1) a. Just because you've been promoted that doesn't give you a divine right to tell us all what to do.
b. Just because I agreed last time, it doesn't necessarily follow that I will do so again.
(cited from Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary .)

I wonder if "that" and "it" are here interchangeable without any differences.

Thank you in advance
Seiichi MYOGA

I think you accept the following that are both without "that" or "it."

(2) a. Just because you've been promoted doesn't give you a divine right to tell us all what to do.
b. Just because I agreed last time doesn't necessarily follow that I will do so again.

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:10 am

You can replace the 'that' with 'it' in 1) a, but 'it' sounds much better than 'that' in 1) b (something to do with "referring" "backwards" versus something - it - following on EDIT: Rather than "following on", I should perhaps have just said 'it' is a dummy subject, kind of "stative", pointing to nowhere in particular).

[BTW the sentences in 2) sound okay (better) using 'mean' ('Just because you've been promoted doesn't mean you have the right...'; '...doesn't necessarily mean I will...')].

Seiichi MYOGA · Post by **Seiichi MYOGA** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:32 am

Dear fluffyhamster,
I appreciate your help and comments.

Since you've mentioned "mean, " can I ask a further question?

Do you think we can use either "that" or "it" in "Just because...doesn't mean"?

(3) a. Just because you've been promoted, [it/that] doesn't mean you have the divine right to tell us all what to do.
b. Just because I agreed last time, [it/that] doesn't necessarily mean that I will do so again.

Seiichi MYOGA
I think "it" refers to the content of the "if"-clause that exists in the context, but "that" refers to a situation or something that exists in the real world, as in "Our children behave better than that.

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:01 am

I think the comments I made about the sentences in 1) still hold with 'mean' also, Seiichi (especially, 'Just because I agreed last time, ?that doesn't necessarily follow that I will do so again.').

Actually, I think 'it' is better in every instance here (its presence would probably not be missed, however) - it's less "distracting" than a 'that'; that being said, I'd entrust to the CALD's original examples and consult a whole bunch more of them before reaching any conclusions.

(Edit: I typed '...than an 'it' ', rather than 'than a 'than' ', above! Duh!).

woodcutter · Post by **woodcutter** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:32 pm

Isn't this fanatical collocationism leading us astray once more? So much worry about the very best choices all the time.......

We can't say, "that doesn't necessarily follow", because the "that" (or the possible"it") should be referring to the following situation (or perhaps the whole situation), rather than what has already been mentioned.

Seiichi MYOGA · Post by **Seiichi MYOGA** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:29 pm

Dear fluffyhamster and woodcutter,

I appreciate both of your help and comments.

Seiichi MYOGA