who have been to China?
Moderators: Dimitris, maneki neko2, Lorikeet, Enrico Palazzo, superpeach, cecil2, Mr. Kalgukshi2
who have been to China?
when you talked with chinese people,which words did you hate to hear?
Could you clarify the purpose of your query a little? Surely you mean which "English words" an expat hates to hear from a Chinese mouth?
In my case, I do not hate "words" so much; I do hate recurrent mispronunciations and fossilised errors.
Typical mispronunciations are "divoice" for "divorce", "com-peyny" for "company" or the slurred "s" and "sh" sounds (sop/shop, sip/ship").
Fossilised errors revolve around grammar points such as:
"Do you meanS...?" (confusion with the noun 'means'),
the total disregard for SVA and for tenses.
In my case, I do not hate "words" so much; I do hate recurrent mispronunciations and fossilised errors.
Typical mispronunciations are "divoice" for "divorce", "com-peyny" for "company" or the slurred "s" and "sh" sounds (sop/shop, sip/ship").
Fossilised errors revolve around grammar points such as:
"Do you meanS...?" (confusion with the noun 'means'),
the total disregard for SVA and for tenses.
"Hate"?
well..For what you HATE that the mistakes Chinese people made, i think you should be more understanding,but not HATE it. they are just maybe the begainer or whom is trying to study well...To be a teacher, it is your duty to correct them and instruct them to the right way. And for me, i am also trying to be as patient as i can to my students...Roger wrote:Could you clarify the purpose of your query a little? Surely you mean which "English words" an expat hates to hear from a Chinese mouth?
In my case, I do not hate "words" so much; I do hate recurrent mispronunciations and fossilised errors.
Typical mispronunciations are "divoice" for "divorce", "com-peyny" for "company" or the slurred "s" and "sh" sounds (sop/shop, sip/ship").
Fossilised errors revolve around grammar points such as:
"Do you meanS...?" (confusion with the noun 'means'),
the total disregard for SVA and for tenses.
Aileen
(Teaching in China)
Aileen,
you don't know me, and I do not know you, but I feel you are a newcomer in China. The choice of the word 'hate' was NOT mine; in fact, it astonished me too, which is why I sought clarification.
On the other hand, I positively dislike fossilised errors, and I do not agree with you that they are slipups of the diligent beginners ('begainers"?). I am specifically talking about recurrent problems in adult or college English speakers. I do not hate the words per se, I do hate the fact that the teaching in China is so ineffective that once an error has been "learnt" it becomes a permanent fixture in that person's speech. The examples I gave you were drawn from my experience over eight years here. Surely if Chinese English teachers make such mistakes, their students may feel they have learnt the correct way; in some instances they actually lecture you "perhaps YOUR pronunciation is not correct".
It is all very well being patient and accommodating, but one should also be a guide to a more acceptable English, and students SHOULD accept you as their guide. In my view, the best would be for us to teach Chinese English teachers, not primary and middle school pupils!
And our Chinese students should learn to differentiate between THEIR own faulty English and any good English; I would like to see them tape-record themselves while reading aloud passages, and listening to them later. THey would certainly hear a lot that's wrong with their pronunciation and clarity of speech!
you don't know me, and I do not know you, but I feel you are a newcomer in China. The choice of the word 'hate' was NOT mine; in fact, it astonished me too, which is why I sought clarification.
On the other hand, I positively dislike fossilised errors, and I do not agree with you that they are slipups of the diligent beginners ('begainers"?). I am specifically talking about recurrent problems in adult or college English speakers. I do not hate the words per se, I do hate the fact that the teaching in China is so ineffective that once an error has been "learnt" it becomes a permanent fixture in that person's speech. The examples I gave you were drawn from my experience over eight years here. Surely if Chinese English teachers make such mistakes, their students may feel they have learnt the correct way; in some instances they actually lecture you "perhaps YOUR pronunciation is not correct".
It is all very well being patient and accommodating, but one should also be a guide to a more acceptable English, and students SHOULD accept you as their guide. In my view, the best would be for us to teach Chinese English teachers, not primary and middle school pupils!
And our Chinese students should learn to differentiate between THEIR own faulty English and any good English; I would like to see them tape-record themselves while reading aloud passages, and listening to them later. THey would certainly hear a lot that's wrong with their pronunciation and clarity of speech!
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sanlee6142
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 6:44 am
- Location: korea, republic kungbuk
Re: who have been to China?
hi bybyelle wrote:when you talked with chinese people,which words did you hate to hear?
Roger,Roger wrote:Aileen,
you don't know me, and I do not know you, but I feel you are a newcomer in China. The choice of the word 'hate' was NOT mine; in fact, it astonished me too, which is why I sought clarification.
On the other hand, I positively dislike fossilised errors, and I do not agree with you that they are slipups of the diligent beginners ('begainers"?). I am specifically talking about recurrent problems in adult or college English speakers. I do not hate the words per se, I do hate the fact that the teaching in China is so ineffective that once an error has been "learnt" it becomes a permanent fixture in that person's speech. The examples I gave you were drawn from my experience over eight years here. Surely if Chinese English teachers make such mistakes, their students may feel they have learnt the correct way; in some instances they actually lecture you "perhaps YOUR pronunciation is not correct".
It is all very well being patient and accommodating, but one should also be a guide to a more acceptable English, and students SHOULD accept you as their guide. In my view, the best would be for us to teach Chinese English teachers, not primary and middle school pupils!
And our Chinese students should learn to differentiate between THEIR own faulty English and any good English; I would like to see them tape-record themselves while reading aloud passages, and listening to them later. THey would certainly hear a lot that's wrong with their pronunciation and clarity of speech!
I share some of the views with you in respect to how to enhance over-all quality of English teaching in China.maybe I'm part of the problem ,too,because I am a teacher in China myself. LOL.
The basic facilities that enable a teacher of English in China to do his job is still the same as 20 years ago when I was a kid: a piece of chalk ,a taperecorder and a textbook.Lack of wide-range and sufficient listening ,reading and writing input always tends to narrow the students' eye scope .They simply regard the accent of their techer's as the only version of correct pronounciation,without realizing how sad it is to look at such a fact to an outsider.
maybe I'm painting a too pessimistic picture .Yes,I percieve in recent years in some more developed areas such as Shanghai and Beijing,that a lot of native speakers have been got involved into English education ,even in the elementary and secondary level.That is sure a good sign,and may make a difference in the future.
Your post addresses TEFL problems in China rather than commenting on my reply to Aileen. Aileen criticised me for quoting the word 'hate'.
I think the TEFL scene in China is fraught with a host of issues that beg resolution.
First thing: Why do Chinese students have to learn English?
A: The government ordered them to!
Is that a reasonable basis for TEFL to take off? Are students
adequately interested/motivated? Of course NOT! Who likes to go
to school in the first place? Look past the pictures in CHINA DAILY
and 21st Century of kids going to their school for the first time!
Chinease kids are no different to us when we went to school -
school is a straitjacket, and no one likes it. That does not mean
kids must rebel against it (some do). Many simply resign them-
selves to it. It is inevitable. It is what EVERYBODY has to accept!
And, eventually some begin to develop interests in certain sub-
jects.
Why should they want to study English of all subjects?????
It is their stupid parents that decide it is good for their future.
Plus, it has been selected as a compulsory subject now.
Q: What materials does a teacher need?
A: I do not think you need much more now than you needed 20
years before! Blackboards or white boards, textbooks, taperecorders.
These days, many schools have computerised VCD's too. I personally
hate taperecorders because of the difficulty in moving back/forward
according to the textbook or the lesson plan. Never mind, I know
tapes can be put to some wonderfully good use, although I myself
have a different suggestion:
I use tapes to record my students' pronunciation so they learn to
listen to themselves and hear what's wrong with their English!
Q: Any ways a teacher can optimise English instruction?
A: Of course there are plenty of options! A teacher who strictly
follows a textbook and listens to the same tapes year in and year
out is unimaginative! Here are some ideas:
Action! Action is the best means and motivator! Only learn that
kind of English that has any practical relevancy to you - a kid
does not think whether he likes to drink 'coffee or water', he
likes orange juice or coke or tea! Therefore, bring drinks to
your classroom!
You have certainly heard of those poor wretches that develop
thromboses during flights, due to cramped sitting in the economy
class of an airliner? Well, don't you think in the near future our
students are going to manifest the exact same condition as a
result of too much sitting on uncomfortable wood chairs behind
confining desks inside overcrowded classrooms???? Yes, I am
pleading here for motional activities - PE, walabouts, orienteering,
rehearsing shopping dramas in a school that functions imaginarily
as a shopping mall!
Q: What about students? What can they do to maximise their learning?
A: In my opinion, 51% of the success of a student at the final exam
depends on him/her, a further 25% on the teacher, and the re-
mainder on circumstances (home, school, classroom) and materials!
Chinese students grow up in a society that fosters passivity,
relieving the individual of initiative and responsability. Chinese
students must learn to think for themselves, act in what can rea-
sonably be inferred to be their interest, and accept that enrolling
is a right that confers upon them a duty to succeed at their own
expense!
I suggest that they learn to TAKE NOTES rather than memorising
and being spoon-fed by more or less competent teachers!
A student must know what he does not know yet, and he must
take the initiative to find answers to his questions rather than
relying on the teacher to serve knowledge and data to him!
Q: What's the role of an expat in a Chinese school?
A: To bring about change to their teaching methodologies, and to
monitor progress. In other words: To implement a teaching
style that's better suited to learning a second tongue than is
currently in use.
This means expat teachers should no longer be confined to
largely useless conversation and speaking classes; they should
teach all relevant English subjects, much in the way I had to
learn three other languages when I was at college!
Expats should be freed up from teaching at primary and middle
school levels to instruct and train Chinese English teachers and
to give preschoolers a firm grounding in English.
Surely our Chinese colleagues do not have a faint clue as to what
teaching English is all about! So long as they have to translate
every word and every sentence for the benefit of their students
we as expat English teachers cannot introduce quality to this
subject in China.
Note that I am not complaining about my Chinese colleagues -
although many of them display a somewhat lacklustre attitude
attitude to their job! Most have no choice in a system that's
totally disinterested in quality, excellence and personal initiative!
I think the TEFL scene in China is fraught with a host of issues that beg resolution.
First thing: Why do Chinese students have to learn English?
A: The government ordered them to!
Is that a reasonable basis for TEFL to take off? Are students
adequately interested/motivated? Of course NOT! Who likes to go
to school in the first place? Look past the pictures in CHINA DAILY
and 21st Century of kids going to their school for the first time!
Chinease kids are no different to us when we went to school -
school is a straitjacket, and no one likes it. That does not mean
kids must rebel against it (some do). Many simply resign them-
selves to it. It is inevitable. It is what EVERYBODY has to accept!
And, eventually some begin to develop interests in certain sub-
jects.
Why should they want to study English of all subjects?????
It is their stupid parents that decide it is good for their future.
Plus, it has been selected as a compulsory subject now.
Q: What materials does a teacher need?
A: I do not think you need much more now than you needed 20
years before! Blackboards or white boards, textbooks, taperecorders.
These days, many schools have computerised VCD's too. I personally
hate taperecorders because of the difficulty in moving back/forward
according to the textbook or the lesson plan. Never mind, I know
tapes can be put to some wonderfully good use, although I myself
have a different suggestion:
I use tapes to record my students' pronunciation so they learn to
listen to themselves and hear what's wrong with their English!
Q: Any ways a teacher can optimise English instruction?
A: Of course there are plenty of options! A teacher who strictly
follows a textbook and listens to the same tapes year in and year
out is unimaginative! Here are some ideas:
Action! Action is the best means and motivator! Only learn that
kind of English that has any practical relevancy to you - a kid
does not think whether he likes to drink 'coffee or water', he
likes orange juice or coke or tea! Therefore, bring drinks to
your classroom!
You have certainly heard of those poor wretches that develop
thromboses during flights, due to cramped sitting in the economy
class of an airliner? Well, don't you think in the near future our
students are going to manifest the exact same condition as a
result of too much sitting on uncomfortable wood chairs behind
confining desks inside overcrowded classrooms???? Yes, I am
pleading here for motional activities - PE, walabouts, orienteering,
rehearsing shopping dramas in a school that functions imaginarily
as a shopping mall!
Q: What about students? What can they do to maximise their learning?
A: In my opinion, 51% of the success of a student at the final exam
depends on him/her, a further 25% on the teacher, and the re-
mainder on circumstances (home, school, classroom) and materials!
Chinese students grow up in a society that fosters passivity,
relieving the individual of initiative and responsability. Chinese
students must learn to think for themselves, act in what can rea-
sonably be inferred to be their interest, and accept that enrolling
is a right that confers upon them a duty to succeed at their own
expense!
I suggest that they learn to TAKE NOTES rather than memorising
and being spoon-fed by more or less competent teachers!
A student must know what he does not know yet, and he must
take the initiative to find answers to his questions rather than
relying on the teacher to serve knowledge and data to him!
Q: What's the role of an expat in a Chinese school?
A: To bring about change to their teaching methodologies, and to
monitor progress. In other words: To implement a teaching
style that's better suited to learning a second tongue than is
currently in use.
This means expat teachers should no longer be confined to
largely useless conversation and speaking classes; they should
teach all relevant English subjects, much in the way I had to
learn three other languages when I was at college!
Expats should be freed up from teaching at primary and middle
school levels to instruct and train Chinese English teachers and
to give preschoolers a firm grounding in English.
Surely our Chinese colleagues do not have a faint clue as to what
teaching English is all about! So long as they have to translate
every word and every sentence for the benefit of their students
we as expat English teachers cannot introduce quality to this
subject in China.
Note that I am not complaining about my Chinese colleagues -
although many of them display a somewhat lacklustre attitude
attitude to their job! Most have no choice in a system that's
totally disinterested in quality, excellence and personal initiative!