till until 'til

JuanTwoThree · Post by **JuanTwoThree** » Wed Jul 27, 2005 1:19 pm

Well, back from hols a week early with a broken collar bone: I was knocked off my feet by a wave.

Anyway, is there any difference between till until and 'til? Don't think I care much for 'til .

i

Metamorfose · Post by **Metamorfose** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:26 pm

There's no difference in until and till, til is just an alternative spelling (like through=> thru).

Now I wonder, I've read that sometimes around is used instead of round just for the sake of pronunciation -- so that you don't get two stressed words in a row-- 'Let me have men (a)round me', could one extend it to the until x till matter?

José

LarryLatham · Post by **LarryLatham** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 6:58 pm

That's a really excellent observation, Jose.

I wonder too. Can you think of any reason why these are not two facets of the same gem?

One thing I will say is that native speakers generally always prefer unstressed forms unless they are emphasizing something. Also, we are lazy, so almost anything which reduces our effort in communicating is good stuff in our eyes.

Larry Latham

Oh, and J23, sorry about your mishap. Did you otherwise have fun in the sun?

JuanTwoThree · Post by **JuanTwoThree** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 7:24 pm

It seems that till is older than until which took the un in the same way that to got changed to unto. So 'til was some kind of faux gentrification by those who thought till was an abbreviation of until. It seems a bit precious.

But the choice between till and until does seem to be dictated by rhythm and register

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-unt1.htm

can explain it better. interesting comment in the link about till being used for time. So "no sleep till Brooklyn" is about time? well yes.

Sorry about the typing. I'm strapped up in most directions in 30º centigrade. But yes, it was very good and if it gets better soon i'll still have a month or so of holiday , though very sedately.

coffeedecafe · Post by **coffeedecafe** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:43 am

it seems that all three words are generally equal, doesn't it?
i do not think i have ever seen 'til written except in poetical or musical lyric use.
they all seem to have a sense of requirement, "i cannot stop for lunch and eat my reuben sanchwich until the noon whistle blows".
till also has another meaning of preparing the soil. "first you till the soil carefully, then plant your beans."
i would think it was short for rototill, but i think this use of till predates the invention of those machines.