Are "more active" passive activities better?

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fluffyhamster
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Are "more active" passive activities better?

Post by fluffyhamster » Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:44 pm


lolwhites
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Post by lolwhites » Sat Dec 03, 2005 9:56 am

The overgeneralised simplified task explains the use of the passive, and the choral drill about the free practice stage finds the pot of gold at the end of the communicative rainbow; however, the acuracy versus frequency dilema teaches the noun clause.

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Post by fluffyhamster » Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:12 pm

See, metal, overusing that type of language simply will not do!

:lol:

Actually, it took me a while to figure out that you hand't gone completely insane, lolwhites!

:D

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Post by lolwhites » Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:48 pm

Actually, I copied and pasted from here:
http://www.lingolex.com/teflessay.htm

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Post by fluffyhamster » Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:39 pm

Oh, right. I thought it wasn't up to your usual standards (didn't want to say, though), so that'd be why!

Hmm, maybe quite a few academics use just such a generator, then? Makes you wonder if Chomsky hasn't ever used anything like the generator you found, or that...hmm what was it called again...the "CHOMSKY" linguistics papers generator? Certainly, there's some "food for thought" posted here on Dave's! :D (=FH smiling innocently).

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Post by metal56 » Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:37 am

fluffyhamster wrote:See, metal, overusing that type of language simply will not do!

:lol:

Actually, it took me a while to figure out that you hand't gone completely insane, lolwhites!

:D
Am I supposed to read the whole link above in order to find the point you are making? What are you on about?

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Post by fluffyhamster » Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:25 pm

Metal, I don't know quite what's gotten your nose so out of joint recently, but if you can't be bothered to follow the above link (which leads to something that is actually quite short and sweet, compared to most of the links you post), then fine, don't - nobody's forcing you to, so stop your griping. If however you can find 5-10 minutes to take a quick peek, then your comments will be welcome (if you have some of any relevance, that is). :evil: 8)

As for the "point" I was making, if any (it's a joke, geddit?), you didn't notice any similarity at all between the randomly generated English and all that 'Psychology studies...' stuff? :x 8)

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Post by metal56 » Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:56 pm

fluffyhamster wrote:Metal, I don't know quite what's gotten your nose so out of joint recently, but if you can't be bothered to follow the above link (which leads to something that is actually quite short and sweet, compared to most of the links you post), then fine, don't - nobody's forcing you to, so stop your griping. If however you can find 5-10 minutes to take a quick peek, then your comments will be welcome (if you have some of any relevance, that is). :evil: 8)

As for the "point" I was making, if any (it's a joke, geddit?), you didn't notice any similarity at all between the randomly generated English and all that 'Psychology studies...' stuff? :x 8)
11 paragraphs? Short and sweet? Try to save me the time; post relevant threads.

:P

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Post by fluffyhamster » Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:31 pm

As I said, metal, you don't have to read what I write, and you are of course quite entitled to your opinion about what is and is not relevant to teaching. All I can say is, I haven't been the only one to take YOU to task over failing to impart much if any PRACTICAL guidance on the AL forum (all we get are little quips like 'It's not what you use, it's how you use it', 'Rough and ready is not the way to present things', or 'My students love it!' - do those ring a bell, anyone? There's nothing that I can recall that compares even with my thoughts, such as they are, on the passive at the link above, or on relative pronouns (also on the Japan forum)). But by all means continue to fill the forum up with your marginalia. 8)

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Post by metal56 » Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:27 pm

fluffyhamster wrote:
LOL! You're upset. You love to give it out, but when it comes to talikng it...
All I can say is, I haven't been the only one to take YOU to task over failing to impart much if any PRACTICAL guidance on the AL forum
And I'm not the only one who you and your buddies have accused of posting irrelvancies. If I'm not posting things that lie within your, IMO, limited view of what should appear here, you get all upset and go on the attack. Well, my friend, this forum does not belong to you and your buddies. And, IMO, two-thirds of what you post here should really be in the teaching forum and not the AL one.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

And this:

Applied linguistics is concerned with using linguistic theory to address real-world problems. It has been traditionally dominated by the fields of language education and second language acquisition. There is a recurrent tension between those who regard the field as limited to the study of language learning, and those who see it as encompassing all applications of linguistic theory. Both definitions are widely used.

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Post by fluffyhamster » Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:39 pm

Metal, I don't believe that I have ever butted in on one of your threads and plainly stated that I couldn't be bothered to read much of them or their links, and then, with rather breathtaking and sweeping arrogance, declared that what I (I, hypothetically) hadn't bothered to read was totally irrelevant tosh. Your attitude beggars belief and can't be winning you many new admirers - I mean, if there's anyone here who's pretty much saying 'This forum is mine, all mine!', it's you, mate. I won't be hounded off or bullied into silence on my "own" threads (i.e. at least the ones that I begin), so give up on that notion right now and just walk away (because I am prepared to drop "this", whatever it is, if you are).

If I do ever reckon some of your stuff is only of a marginal nature, I do try to give a few reasons why, and I don't believe I have ever told you to more or less discontinue posting (even if I do sometimes wonder about the relevance of some of what you present).

If you are going to insist on, for want of a better word, "stalking" me for whatever unfathomable reasons, could you at least have the decency to practise what you preach and make YOUR posts even halfway relevant to the discussion at hand on whatever thread you have chosen to intrude upon with your (recently, it seems) unrelenting drivel. For example, this thread is about (teaching) the passive: if you have no ideas about how to teach it then go find some.

I am well aware that linguistics has applications outside of teaching, but that is the primary concern around here - it is, after all, an ESL website, or hadn't you noticed? If you don't ever want to be put on the spot about how exactly your theories can be made relevant, then stick to the linguistics proper discussion forums where you can prove how clever you are to Chomsky or whoever else isn't particularly listening.

BTW what exactly is the 'teaching forum'? Do you mean the Teacher training forum? Looks a bit naff (I mean just the formatting) if you ask me...

And who exactly are my 'buddies'? I must admit that I don't really know if I (or indeed you) have any on here (at least not any that want to get involved in this rather pointless affair, it would seem).

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Post by metal56 » Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:12 am

<Metal, I don't believe that I have ever butted in on one of your threads and plainly stated that I couldn't be bothered to read much of them or their links, and then, with rather breathtaking and sweeping arrogance, declared that what I (I, hypothetically) hadn't bothered to read was totally irrelevant tosh. >

This was the "tosh" I was referring to. If you want to address me, try being more explicit. Nothing more annoying than silly little messages such as that one.
Your attitude beggars belief and can't be winning you many new admirers
And on you go trying to create divisions. Have fun, little one.
I won't be hounded off or bullied into silence on my "own" threads (i.e. at least the ones that I begin), so give up on that notion right now and just walk away
'

Hmm. Interesting. I remember your reactions to the following the first time they appeared (I would say you enjoyed hounding me then).

<It's not what you use, it's how you use it', 'Rough and ready is not the way to present things', or 'My students love it!' - do those ring a bell, anyone? >
(even if I do sometimes wonder about the relevance of some of what you present).
Well you can't expect to understand everything right away, now can you?
If you are going to insist on, for want of a better word, "stalking" me for whatever unfathomable reasons
Don't be childish and don't place yourself so highly. You do a fine bit of stalking, sniping and trolling yourself, you know?
chosen to intrude upon with your (recently, it seems) unrelenting drivel.
Hmm. Drivel?
New research project for metal56: frequency of verb 'rivet' with non-literal meaning, versus frequency of predicative adjective 'riveting'.
I am well aware that linguistics has applications outside of teaching, but that is the primary concern around here - it is, after all, an ESL website, or hadn't you noticed?
The problem with you is that you need quick fix answers to everything. Not all usage questions can be answered so easily. And, if you choose to apply your easy-answer-and-on-to-the-classroom approach to all that appears here, that is your problem and not mine.

In short, my friend, give space for all kinds of approaches here, all kinds of questions. My target is the same as yours: I want to understand more about the language I am to teach and then transfer that understanding to the classroom in the best way I see fit. You want to find quick answers to everything, but I do no have the same need.

So, keep calm and try to give space.

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Post by fluffyhamster » Sat Dec 10, 2005 8:00 am

<Metal, I don't believe that I have ever butted in on one of your threads and plainly stated that I couldn't be bothered to read much of them or their links, and then, with rather breathtaking and sweeping arrogance, declared that what I (I, hypothetically) hadn't bothered to read was totally irrelevant tosh. >

This was the "tosh" I was referring to. If you want to address me, try being more explicit. Nothing more annoying than silly little messages such as that one.
Metal, the person who used the word 'tosh' was me, so how could you have been referring to something that I only wrote later with a word that you hadn't written beforehand? I think you're geting confused, and this isn't the first time that you've seemed to cut and paste at random simply as a way to make way for some incomprehensible comment or other of yours (that is, your manner of quoting can be dodgy).

Don't you realize that you're coming across as a bit of a humbug to take such exception to a few (I assure you) good-natured jokes, or (more seriously) hardly appearing to be the great teacher and role model you always assume you are by being so dismissive of another's posts (posts which aren't even on one of your threads in this case, it must again be said! When are you going to make a comment on teaching the passive, by the way? If it's too much bother, you could just direct us to some "stimulating" link where unfortunately your thoughts, but thankfully your comments, are nowhere to be found).

I won't presume to say that I have ever "challenged" you (the word seems best reserved for aggressive, combative academics), but you do seem to be unduly irritated by my mere presence now for some reason, and determined to drag this one out until somebody calls it time and declares one of us a winner (or, more likely, both losers).

I am not in search of "quick fixes" in my teaching (I want what I present to be well thought-out and faithful to the language), but yes, the classroom does beckon, and it isn't full of high-level non-native teacher types who are going to help me thrash things out slowly. It is indeed a "problem", but not one of my making (it's simply what is known as 'reality'), but that doesn't stop me from making it my problem to try to fix.

So, in short, yes, we both have at least similar long-term goals, and both (apparently) want to see space in which ideas can flourish or, even <<GASP>> be PLAYED with. I therefore don't expect to be hearing much more of you on this thread (unless as I've said it's to do with (teaching) the passive (I put the 'teaching' in brackets lest it scares you away LOL)). Fair enough? (Extends olive branch half-heartedly with one hand whilst concealing mallet in other).

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Post by metal56 » Sat Dec 10, 2005 9:42 am

Wow, you really have got yourself all worked up here, haven't you?
Metal, the person who used the word 'tosh' was me, so how could you have been referring to something that I only wrote later with a word that you hadn't written beforehand?
You did see the quotes around tosh, didn't you? I simply used your chosen word to refer you to that which I had labeled irrelevant and under-elaborated.
When are you going to make a comment on teaching the passive, by the way?
When and if I choose to - if that's OK by you.
If it's too much bother, you could just direct us to some "stimulating" link where unfortunately your thoughts, but thankfully your comments, are nowhere to be found).
Spoken in true Hamster style. As I said earlier, you love to dish it out but you don't like it when it comes back at you.
I won't presume to say that I have ever "challenged" you (the word seems best reserved for aggressive, combative academics), but you do seem to be unduly irritated by my mere presence now for some reason, and determined to drag this one out until somebody calls it time and declares one of us a winner (or, more likely, both losers).

It takes two to tango, friend. You are still responding, aren't you?

To me, it seems as if you are a newish teacher in need of help, ideas and support. I have noticed that you, more than many others, cry out "what has all this got to do with teaching" when you come across posts that are not of intetrest to you personally. When things get above your head or lie outside your experience of the language, you get all nervy. Nobody here, apart from yourself, expects you to know everything. Your self-image and reputation as an ESL teacher will not be destroyed just because you cannot immediately give answers to less common questions regarding language use.

Tell you what, you take and give that which you need to from here and I'll do the same, OK?

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Post by fluffyhamster » Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:08 pm

Metal, learn to read - I said 'I don't believe that I have ever butted in on one of your threads and plainly stated that I couldn't be bothered to read much of them or their links, and then, with rather breathtaking and sweeping arrogance, declared that what I (I, hypothetically) hadn't bothered to read was totally irrelevant tosh', which basically means, I do actually bother to read some of what you post, and haven't ever outright said what YOU type is tosh. You've gone from that "quote" to again saying that all that I write is rubbish. If you're going to continue with the insults, at least find words of your own, OK?

Hmm, 'under-elaborated'...at least it's not overelaborate or painfully drawn out.

And for the last time, this thread is supposed to be about the passive. I know it's difficult for you, but try to stay on topic, OK?

Stop patronizing me and do something constructive with your time instead - life's too short.

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