How different are these Englishes really?

[fluffyhamster]

I wondered on the 'Investigating AL fora' thread whether IE speakers try to predict when usages (perhaps a better word here now would be "style", stylistic flourishes) specific to IE might cause problems in international communication. Seems not, eh!

Many do "predict" in fact, but one could ask the same of AE speakers who do business internationally. And do you expect it to be all one-sided? Should Indians spend hours of their free-tie learning both IE, then AE and BE? Or, should those who study or speak BE and AE make a little extra effort to become aware of usage in other variants? As I said, many Japanese people find IE pronunciation easier to understand than AE. How many AE speaking business people are aware of that fact and being so try to adjust their pronunciation to their listeners ears?

Sure, there will always be some native speakers who will soon (or sooner or later) learn that not being able to refrain from or switch off the idiomatic elements in their speech isn't doing them any favors with some of the non-AE speakers that they talk to. But equally, speakers of e.g. IE will probably find it easier to use 'bring forward' than have to explain 'prepone' every time (assuming that the usage is widespread enough in India that there would be the habit and thus temptation to use it).

My guess is that people will correct their extreme tendencies themselves, without needing to be prodded by politically-minded commentators like Widdowson, and it's not like they won't be able to get the exposure generally, or to find or work out possible answers (or rather, solutions) for any specific communicative need, given the internet, extent of international travel and exchange etc.

And there we native teachers are, beating ourselves up over what sometimes seems to be every single word and phrase we dare to teach.

You seem to beat yourself over such things. I don't.

I was being somewhat ironic (you might recall that there was a thread a few years ago about irony), but for what it's worth, I'm glad to hear that somebody at least (i.e. you yourself) hasn't felt the overpowering urge to give you a good beating.

[fluffyhamster]

so who are we native speakers to start making tut-tutting noises when we meet stuff like "Dear Sir – We beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter of the 16th instant regarding the price charged for…". Even though I don't like the wording there, I can work out that the writer is acknowledging that a 'letter was received regarding...' (right? LOL), and so too presumably could learners, or non-natives, or speakers of English variety X etc.

True, but would you then advise your students to use the same style of writing when communicating with Indians?

And would you agree with this professor?

Professor Harish Trivedi of Delhi University contemptuously says, "Indian English? It's merely incorrect English."

No, I wouldn't teach such a florid style.

As for Indian English being 'incorrect', I think such a viewpoint blinds its holder to seeing the underlying similarities between it and other varieties - like I said on the "fora" thread, becoming more aware of those similarities will help users arrive at what is hopefully a more appropriate style (but, once again, that's not to say that the wording is so outlandish that the meaning can't be discerned in florid text).

[metal56]

My guess is that people will correct their extreme tendencies themselves, without needing to be prodded by politically-minded commentators like Widdowson,

They may also choose to use language that they like, without being prodded to do the opposite by politically-minded forumites.

[metal56]

that's not to say that the wording is so outlandish that the meaning can't be discerned in florid text).

If deciphering meaning were all there was to language learning...

[fluffyhamster]

Metal, go play with SJ for a bit. He's stomping on one of your sandcastles again, causing untold damage to your designs.

[metal56]

Metal, go play with SJ for a bit. He's stomping on one of your sandcastles again, causing untold damage to your designs.

Can you see my sandcastles from your ivory tower?

[metal56]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Artic ... 74,00.html

Indian English ready for export

[lolwhites]

The article is 5 years old; it would be interesting to know what's happened in the meantime.

[fluffyhamster]

Metal, go play with SJ for a bit. He's stomping on one of your sandcastles again, causing untold damage to your designs.

Can you see my sandcastles from your ivory tower?

Yes, but the view would be better from your one - it's so biiig (fnar fnar), and better quality too, what with all the poached ivory.

[metal56]

Yes, but the view would be better from your one - it's so biiig (fnar fnar), and better quality too, what with all the poached ivory.

One word: intertextuality. Are you free from it?

[fluffyhamster]

Probably not, but I do at least try to put things into my own words from time to time.

[metal56]

Probably not, but I do at least try to put things into my own words from time to time.

Don't we know it.

[fluffyhamster]

Indeedy do.

[mrandmrsjohnqsmith]

I'm intrigued to learn that your Japanese students feel more comfortable with the Indian English accent. We Americans often have a terrible time understanding Indian English speakers. Is it just us?

As far as ESL learners not being able to tell a difference, I've had plenty of students complain about inability to comprehend one English or another.

[metal56]

I'm intrigued to learn that your Japanese students feel more comfortable with the Indian English accent. We Americans often have a terrible time understanding Indian English speakers. Is it just us?
.

Why should you think it's just you lot? Some people understand Indian English speakers and some don't. Believe me, in my 25 years teaching ESL/EFL/ESP, many students have said that they do not easily understand many AE speakers.