Investigating applied linguistics fora.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:42 pm

Anuradha Chepur wrote: Some of our students are going abroad, so we have to let them know what is coinage and what is standard.

Good move. I do the same for my students who do business with India.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:44 pm

Yes, but what about 'advance', which seemed to be AC's initial preference?

One has to know the options available if one is to have a preference, right?

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:46 pm

FYI, I lived in China for two years several years ago, and taught a fair amount of Business English in Shanghai at companies such as Nike and Siemens. I also speak, read and write passable Mandarin Chinese. I'm not some backpacker yearning to hear phrases like 'It's raining cats and dogs', you know.

Hmm.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:49 pm

You mean you now want me to define grammar too?!

You were the one moaning on about the wider-view of grammar.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:51 pm

then the hours spent worrying about 'prepone' could be time well spent.

So it takes you hours to teach new vocabulary? Hmm.

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:31 am

My ex-students, right, right - I mean, you are right, many have graduated from my care magna *beep* fluffus and therefore now have no real need to continue with "formal" learning.

One has to know the options available if one is to have a preference, right?

Obviously. But in some instances one form will do the job time and again and better than any alternative (assuming that a neutral - in between formal and informal - exponent exists).

Hmm, I actually am quite interested in grammar and what it is or could be; that doesn't mean however that I don't sometimes roll my eyes when I encounter the question 'What is grammar?', especially when no answers (or few substantial or interesting answers) seem to be forthcoming from the asker. But with regard to question of what a native speaker is, seeing as you always seem to regard your sources as superior to anything anyone else could present (and also presumably to how you yourself might put things), I suppose your sources can be left to "speak for themselves" for at least the time being - that is, I don't really want to get hit with yet more barrages of innuendo, snippy question upon question etc etc for my pains just yet (and like I'Ve already said, I don't always have a lot of time even if I did have much more to add beyond what lolwhites wrote).

JuanTwoThree · Post by **JuanTwoThree** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:40 am

This is a good definition:

"Kramsch (1997) defines the native speaker as someone who is
accepted as such by the group that created the native speaker/nonnative speaker distinction, regardless of birthplace."

You could substitute Mafioso/non-Mafioso, or a lot of other groups.

From

http://kitkat.wvu.edu:8080/files/2685/F ... thesis.pdf

which gets off to a good start. I haven't read the rest.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:58 am

Hmm, I actually am quite interested in grammar and what it is or could be; that doesn't mean however that I don't sometimes roll my eyes when I encounter the question 'What is grammar?', especially when no answers (or few substantial or interesting answers) seem to be forthcoming from the asker.

Yes, that also irritates me. Thank goodness I've provided my definition, or the definition I agree with, many times here.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:00 am

JuanTwoThree wrote:This is a good definition:

"Kramsch (1997) defines the native speaker as someone who is
accepted as such by the group that created the native speaker/nonnative speaker distinction, regardless of birthplace."

Which means that to one such group I may be a native speaker and to another not.

Hmm.

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:05 am

metal56 wrote:
Hmm, I actually am quite interested in grammar and what it is or could be; that doesn't mean however that I don't sometimes roll my eyes when I encounter the question 'What is grammar?', especially when no answers (or few substantial or interesting answers) seem to be forthcoming from the asker.
Yes, that also irritates me. Thank goodness I've provided my definition, or the definition I agree with, many times here.

By 'here' I guess you mean somewhere on the forum as a whole, and not just about modals. You couldn't direct "us" (Gizza butcher's!) to some choice (rare? LOL) meaty "bits", could you? You know, a post or two where you really feel you outdid yourself (sorry, I know it'll be hard for you to select 'em. Oh, the ambiguity! As in, do you make loads of brill posts, or loads of cr*p ones? Judges, get your scorecards ready! And hey, if you impress in this task I've set, I might even get back to you with my musings on that seemingly elusive creature, the Greater spotted native speaker).

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:39 am

Judges, get your scorecards ready!

It seems that more people judge your posts than they do mine.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:00 am

Over the next ten years 3.5 million jobs are expected to be outsourced globally, and they are likely to be lost by India because BPO experts say that India is losing its “English” advantage to other countries.

http://www.ccsindia.org/ccsindia/gdas/toi.htm

Anuradha Chepur · Post by **Anuradha Chepur** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:08 am

Metal, here are some examples of Indian coinage: I have put the coinage on the left and the standard equivalents in brackets on the right. I have just paraphrased some, without a bracket, on the right.

stone house (a house of stone)
match-box (a box of matches)
alphabets (letters of the alphabet)
bed-sheets (sheets)
money-purse (purse)
floor-carpets (carpets)
welcome address (address of welcome)
pin-drop silence
beer bottle/ink bottle/water bottle/milk bottle ( a bottle of beer/ink/water/milk)
chalk piece (a piece of chalk)
fish/rice plate (a plate of fish/rice)
cloth piece (a piece of cloth)
key bunch (a bunch of keys)
back bencher - a person sitting on the benches at the back, usually naughty and not iknterested in the lesson
iron box - the iron for pressing clothes
busybody - a busy person
potluck - abundant luck
head bath (shampoo)
foreign-returned
eve-teasing (molesting)
departmental store (department store)
colour pencils (coloured pencils)
ice water (iced water)
prepone
unemployee
delink
examinership
lecturership
freeship
batch mate - from the same batch
office-goers
child-lifter/cycle-lifter/shop lifter - those who steal
cement colour (grey)
chocolate colour (brown)
cousin brother/sister
co-brother/co-son-in-law - wife's sister's husband (brother-in-law)
co-sister/co-daughter-in-law - husband's brother's wife (sister-in-law)
bed tea/coffee - having tea/coffee before brushing one's teeth.
finger-ring (ring)

Anuradha Chepur · Post by **Anuradha Chepur** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:32 am

metal56 wrote::shock:

Over the next ten years 3.5 million jobs are expected to be outsourced globally, and they are likely to be lost by India because BPO experts say that India is losing its “English” advantage to other countries.

http://www.ccsindia.org/ccsindia/gdas/toi.htm

That is because of the 'vernacular chuvinists' (as given in the article), who don't want children to learn English.

Personally, I think the English of Indians will get better with time, because more are becoming English-conscious by the day.

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:48 am

metal56 wrote:
Judges, get your scorecards ready!
It seems that more people judge your posts than they do mine.

Lol recently began a thread that may shed some light on stuff like this. Then again, maybe not...

AC, thanks for posting the list. Hopefully somebody else will comment on its contents soon, but if it somehow doesn't get much of a response (it's potentially a lot more interesting than many of e.g. Itasan's query items), I'll try to get back to you about it later next week (am going to be quite busy over the weekend and until Thursday. Hooray, some of you say! No fluffyhamster for days on end!

).