How does an instructor discuss culture without imposing it?

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 4:04 pm

Anuradha Chepur wrote:Could you edit your post Metal?
I'm unable to make out which part of it is what you wrote and which part is what you have quoted from the article.

Also, my computer is unable to open the article which is in pdf.
Can you give the html link?

You can download the free Adobe PDF reader here:

http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 9:45 pm

I've been away a few days and have only just had time to catch up with this thread. Metal - I don't understand your question to me. Why would I consider it "self-serving and hegemonic" to advise a student on how to avoid inadvertantly causing offence in a foreign country? It's surely no different from advising a visitor to Iran not to give a "thumbs up" gesture, which, I understand, is considered an insulting gesture.

Anuradha Chepur · Post by **Anuradha Chepur** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:35 am

Metal wrote:

They seem to be just what students prefer in some Indian teaching contexts.

It is dangerous for students or patients, if they decide what is good for them and not teachers or doctors.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:44 am

Anuradha Chepur wrote:Metal wrote:
They seem to be just what students prefer in some Indian teaching contexts.
It is dangerous for students or patients, if they decide what is good for them and not teachers or doctors.

I think you are comparing apples with oranges. In fact, what you are actually doing is agreeing that traditional thinking - such as "children should be seen and not heard" - is correct. How do teachers learn about the validty of certain teaching methods if not by also considering the students in front of them?

Anuradha Chepur · Post by **Anuradha Chepur** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:02 am

A teacher has to definitely consider the student response in terms of results and adapt accordingly.
But it is the trained and experienced teacher, who is an authority/expert on teaching methods. A teacher has to understand the needs, the weaknesses of the students but not ask the student to tell him how he should teach.
Insofar as ESL is concerned, learning only grammar is what traditional thinking is and what I don't agree with.

Anuradha Chepur · Post by **Anuradha Chepur** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:07 am

You can occasionally give them what they suggest just for placebo effect.
But mainly give them what you feeel they need.

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:34 am

Doesn't this go back to the discussion Juan started on whether or not to discuss methodology with the students? I would avoid terminology, but if the students understand why you're asking them to do something, it often helps. I sometimes refer to my own experience - "Look people, I was taught nothing but grammar and translation in French and Spanish, I was top of the class, yet as soon as I set foot in the country I couldn't understand anyone, much less express myself and I don't want the same to happen to you."

You will always get one or two armchair experts who absolutely insist that what you do is wrong, but in my experience they are aren't numerous, it just seems that way as they shout the loudest.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:55 pm

Anuradha Chepur wrote: Insofar as ESL is concerned, learning only grammar is what traditional thinking is and what I don't agree with.

That is exactly what this thread is about. If there is a need for certain students to get qualifications and that, and only that, will lead them into a job, then grammar only classes may be just what is needed.

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:25 pm

The key word in here is may. If the test is purely grammar based then it may be what is needed (to pass the exam and get a job). In my experience, tests of English, particularly professional ones which are intended for students from any language background, like TOEIC, go beyond grammar and test other skills too. That's where developing skills like skimming, scanning, deducing meaning from context etc come in.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:08 pm

lolwhites wrote:Doesn't this go back to the discussion Juan started on whether or not to discuss methodology with the students?

I don't think it has anything to do with that.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:11 pm

lolwhites wrote:The key word in here is may. If the test is purely grammar based then it may be what is needed (to pass the exam and get a job). In my experience, tests of English, particularly professional ones which are intended for students from any language background, like TOEIC, go beyond grammar and test other skills too. That's where developing skills like skimming, scanning, deducing meaning from context etc come in.

And yet:

"Canagarajah points out that most educated people in the Indian subcontinent are successfully multilingual, despite their collectionist education, in contrast to typically monolingual ELT experts from BANA countries."

"The whole system of education in India is directed towards the exams the children will eventually take. “The situation in India is one where, with a few exceptions, traditional content-based (as opposed to skill-based) exams override all other educational concerns.” (Mathew, 1997)"

http://dudeney.com/iatefl/gisig/resourc ... ch2004.pdf