mono transitive, di transitive and complex transitive

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zorro (3)
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mono transitive, di transitive and complex transitive

Post by zorro (3) » Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:27 pm

I'm currently doing an MA in Applied Linguistics (note the capitals Metal...) and have come across these verb types that I previously never knew existed. I was reminded of this point when Stephen Jones mentioned catatnananntnive verbs (sorry, don't know the spelling so I made it up).

Will I ever use these terms again (other than in an academic setting or on forums such as this)?
Have you ever taught these differences to your students?
Is this level of metalinguistics necessary for teaching people to become fluent in English?

JuanTwoThree
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Post by JuanTwoThree » Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:56 pm

Calling ditransitive verbs "verbs with two objects" is like calling the uvula "the red thing that hangs down at the back of your throat".

The technical term is shorter for a start. It's very precise. You wouldn't use it when talking to a layperson.

So I would say:

No. These terms are for use in academic settings.

Yes but using other names,

Don't you mean metalanguage? If so, no.

lucy lace
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Post by lucy lace » Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:09 pm

My personal belief is that only word-nerds care whether or not a verb is ditransitive, monotransitive, etc. I learned those terms in a (gasp!) Linguistics class, not an English class, and rather than feel irritation with the technical terminology, I felt a pleasant little jolt of excitement: "Oooh! That verb is a special verb! Of course it deserves a special term!"

I do explain the different kinds of transitive verbs to my TESOL students, but I am more likely to give them examples of the different types than use the terms themselves, and I really only teach them so my students can join me in feeling the awe and bliss of understanding complex language...

I must say, I find this site extraordinarily enjoyable to lurk through. Stephen, Metal, Juan, Zorro...you are all characters in my linguistics soap opera. Keep the spiteful exchanges going, I beg you! (Only word-nerds could get that worked up about relative clauses...whew.) You all keep the language alive with your passion.

Pleasant teachings everybody!

lolwhites
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Post by lolwhites » Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:04 pm

I agree with Juan. I only use the most complicated terminology in discussion with other teachers, not with students. I might use the terms transitive and intransitive to students who are already language specialists, but not in your common or garden Business English or FCE preparation class.

Too much terminology and you can end up not teaching English, but teaching about English.

Stephen Jones
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Post by Stephen Jones » Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:42 pm

There are a fair number of linguistic terms that you will only use when discussing with fellow linguists, and many you can go years without coming across. I first found out what catenative verbs where when Andrew Patteson directed us to his magnum opus on the subject, published by the German University Press of Bad Digestion. If you can be sure that your audience will know what the terms mean, or are able to find them out, then using them does save time (and anybody who knows what transitive is can work out mono-transitive and ditransitive).

What metalanguage you give your students depends on two things; your teaching style and the level of the students. I normally teach the terms 'transitive' and 'intransitive' when they come up in the dictionary lessons.

And of course some technical terms are refreshingly untechnical in their wording ('wh' questions and the '...ing' form spring to mind).
Last edited by Stephen Jones on Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

Metamorfose
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Post by Metamorfose » Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:39 am

And of course some technical terms are refreshingly untechnical ('wh' questions and the '...ing' form spring to mind).
What would you call the -ing form and why do you think iy's untechnical?

José

Stephen Jones
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Post by Stephen Jones » Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:51 am

I should have said the 'are refreshingly untechnical in their wording'. I'll make the edit.

I use the '...ing' form to refer to those words ending in '...ing' that many would class as either gerunds or present participles. There are so many sentences where you argue over which one the word is that I reckon the '...ing' form is more accurate terminology.

metal56
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Post by metal56 » Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:30 am

I must say, I find this site extraordinarily enjoyable to lurk through. Stephen, Metal, Juan, Zorro...you are all characters in my linguistics soap opera.
And where are you in that soap opera? I hope not looking down from the control room.

lucy lace
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Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 2:56 am

Post by lucy lace » Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:58 pm

metal56 wrote:
I must say, I find this site extraordinarily enjoyable to lurk through. Stephen, Metal, Juan, Zorro...you are all characters in my linguistics soap opera.
And where are you in that soap opera? I hope not looking down from the control room.
No, no, Metal! I am just a groupie; just an adoring fan!

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