EFL to ESL status

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:29 am

According to Jenkins, in her book World Englishes, twenty countries are at present (2003) in transition from EFL to ESL status. She mentions Argentina, Belgium, Costa Rica, Denmark, Sudan and Switzerland as being among those countries, but doesn't give the rest. Can anyone tell me which are the other countries that are making the transition from EFL to ESL status?

How will such transitions effect what is taught there regarding English learning?

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 5:38 am

You could make something of a start by crossing off those countries in which English is most certainly still a foreign language. Here's one right away: Japan.

Actually, what is her (and/or your) definition of an ESL country? Is it one in which e.g. more than half the population know, or speak/use the language at a certain level of competence, and with such and such a frequency, for such purposes as...

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 11:40 am

You could make something of a start by crossing off those countries in which English is most certainly still a foreign language. Here's one right away: Japan.

I'd have to go through a heck of a lot of countries were I to follow your advice.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:20 pm

Ok, search over. I managed to find Graddol's "big" list.

Page 11. http://www.britishcouncil.org/de/learni ... future.pdf

"In those countries in table 6, the use of English for intranational communication is greatly increasing (such as professional discourse or higher education)."

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:45 pm

"Professional discourse or higher education" might be an important part of Graddol's everyday communication, but not for most people. How far does she think English has to penetrate before a country becomes ESL as opposed to EFL?

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:51 pm

How far does she think English has to penetrate before a country becomes ESL as opposed to EFL?

How far would you say "English has to penetrate before a country becomes ESL as opposed to EFL?" Remember that the topic post talks about countries in transition.

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:35 pm

How far would you say "English has to penetrate before a country becomes ESL as opposed to EFL?"

Fluffy asked you pretty much the same question 2 days ago.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:00 am

lolwhites wrote:
How far would you say "English has to penetrate before a country becomes ESL as opposed to EFL?"
Fluffy asked you pretty much the same question 2 days ago.

Did you read this:

"In those countries in table 6, the use of English for intranational communication is greatly increasing (such as professional discourse or higher education)."

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:32 am

Is that supposed to be a definition of an ESL country? "Greatly increasing" seems a bit vague to me. Increasing at what rate? "Greatly" compared to what/when/where? From what old level to what new level?

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:15 am

lolwhites wrote:Is that supposed to be a definition of an ESL country? "Greatly increasing" seems a bit vague to me. Increasing at what rate? "Greatly" compared to what/when/where? From what old level to what new level?

I'm not sure how to answer you personal interst question. I was only asking if anyone knew the names of the countries not on my list above.

So, can you answer your own question or not? How would you define a country that was in transition from an EFL to an ESL one?

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:55 am

No, I can't. That's why I asked it!

My original question was about Graddol; she seems to be the expert so I was wondering at what point she considers a country to have "completed" the transition? You kicked it off by reading Jenkins - what does she say?

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 12:17 pm

lolwhites wrote:No, I can't. That's why I asked it!

You kicked it off by reading Jenkins - what does she say?

Not much.

JuanTwoThree · Post by **JuanTwoThree** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 12:37 pm

What would happen if everybody only ever asked questions and nobody ever answered them?

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 12:51 pm

JuanTwoThree wrote:What would happen if everybody only ever asked questions and nobody ever answered them?

Should I answer that question?

JuanTwoThree · Post by **JuanTwoThree** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 1:13 pm

One rule of thumb for something approaching ESL might be that you can reasonably expect anyone under the age of thirty to understand and answer you in English.

This would include Greece or its touristy bits at any rate.

Another sign might be code-switching on a large scale. Not just the odd trendy word but an indication that the speaker is very comfortable in English though by no means bilingual.

Having said that it's probably too fuzzy to tie down to any specific criteria.