He is taller than me? ~OR~ He is taller than I ????

[lindasp62]

He is taller than me. ~OR~ He is taller than I. ????

It is my understanding that the correct statement is "He is taller than I.", meaning "He is taller than I am (tall)" , but I always hear it and see it written (in instruction books, no less!) as "He is taller than me". (and such similar sentences using "me" rather than "I".)

Thanks!

[Gabbo]

As the personal pronoun comes after the verb 'be' you would use 'me' - just ask yourself if it is possible to say 'he is taller than she' NO, it's her which is the object pronoun. For more information see my page www.englishevolve.co.uk. Thanks!

[Lorikeet]

Actually, I think the old-style correct way is to say, "He is taller than I (am)." However, most people currently say, "He is taller than I am." or "He is older than me." I think the "me" usage is perfect for conversation and normal use. I'd recommend the other for tests of arcane English.

[Jimbobob]

Basically agree with Lorikeet here. From a strictly prescriptive standpoint, "taller than I (am)" is 'correct', but general usage has made the shift towards "me" as the 'correct' choice, especially in conversation.

just ask yourself if it is possible to say 'he is taller than she' NO, it's her which is the object pronoun.

He is taller than she

is indeed the grammatically correct way to state this thought. However common usage has made "He is taller than her" the default for many variants. She is not the object of anything, 'than' here acting as a subordinating conjunction.


NOW, let's have some fun.....


Rick likes his video games more than me. (Rick likes his video games more than he likes me)

Rick likes his video games more than I.
(Rick likes his video games more than I like his video games)



Steve hit Betty harder than she. (Steve hit Betty harder than she hit Betty)


Steve hit Betty harder than her. (Steve hit Betty harder than Steve hit her)



But like Lorikeet said, common usage is changing most people's default to the object pronoun. As such, I'd probably end up teaching that both are 'accepted' but that the actual 'incorrect' grammatically construction is preferred.

[Machjo]

Descriptivism is a curse for translators.

I've done translation for years, and I'll tell you that nothing irritates me more than a textful of descriptivism.

'He likes her more than I/me,' is just the tip of the icegerg.

For anyone who wants to know what really goes through the efl student's brain, a good exercise would be a translation task. Translate a document to or from English, and that's when it's complications show through, warts and all.

I use descriptivism all the time outside of work. But once I'm at the office translating a formal document, I don''t use descriptivism; the other translators would kill me. Don't forget likewise that chain translation is very common, especially to and from English as the bridge language. If the English is wrong, it may cause a chain reaction throughout the system! Who's in for a game of dominoes?

To take a concrete example:

A Russian student learning Chinese via English had confused his right and left in English. Later, once we'd switched to Chinese, I'd noticed the same mistake. It's upon questioning that I'd learnt that English was the medium through which he was learning Chinese. So needless to say that all the errors apparent in English transfered over to Chinese!

The same could apply in translating text from a less precise language to a more precise one, English usually leaning towards the more ambiguous languages (a common criticism among translators, not to mention the added one of a drift towards further descriptivism)! So we needn't make it even MORE SO!

I don't care if you are teaching adults or children: any one of them could potentially become translators in future. As such, they ought to learn prescriptive grammar from the word go. Whether they sound like a mother-tongue Brit or American is irrelevent (after all, we're not training future citizens now are we?). But what is important is that their communication is unambiguous to all, regardless of cultural background.

I have nothing against teaching descriptivism in the classroom, but keep it in the realm of oral communication and out of the textbooks. If you feel uncomfortable with prescriptive dialogues, then keep the dialogues out of the textbooks.

I myself have always applied descriptivism to dialogues, but have shied away from printed dialogues in textbooks; they learn it directly from me instead, within a strictly oral context. I even ensure their pens are down when I'm teaching them descriptive grammar. Descriptivism is to remain within the realm of the spoken for a beginner. Only later, once fluent, should they try to write or type it in forums etc.

I'm even careful not to use the singular generic 'they', or the generic 'you'; these also lead to confusion in some text. I know, this is all stuff many mother-tongue speakers who've never had to translate technical text take for granted. But the reality is, English has enough traps for us all without this constant drift to descriptivism.

[Machjo]

Actually, I think the old-style correct way is to say, "He is taller than I (am)." However, most people currently say, "He is taller than I am." or "He is older than me." I think the "me" usage is perfect for conversation and normal use. I'd recommend the other for tests of arcane English.

And the 'old style' way is still used in formal translation in a multilingual office.

[Lorikeet]

I'm even careful not to use the singular generic 'they', or the generic 'you'; these also lead to confusion in some text. I know, this is all stuff many mother-tongue speakers who've never had to translate technical text take for granted. But the reality is, English has enough traps for us all without this constant drift to descriptivism.

I really think the methods we use and the emphasis we place on things for our students depends on the particular learning environment we are in. In my case, for example, teaching adult immigrants in a non-credit college situation, it is much more useful for me (and for them) to explain the common usage as well as what might be prescriptively regarded as "correct."

[jotham]

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anything here, but just to add that there is a debate about whether than is a preposition or a conjunction. Those who say it is a conjunction (which is most grammarians) will use I, the subject. Those who say it is a preposition (like William Safire and Eric Partridge), will justify me, the object.

[wen wu]

NOW, let's have some fun.....


Rick likes his video games more than me. (Rick likes his video games more than he likes me)

Rick likes his video games more than I.
(Rick likes his video games more than I like his video games)



Steve hit Betty harder than she. (Steve hit Betty harder than she hit Betty)


Steve hit Betty harder than her. (Steve hit Betty harder than Steve hit her)



I play this game with my students too, but in the end it really just comes down to context and stress, putting the stress on different words changes the meaning a lot.

but, you are correct modern usage has changed the original grammar, but what are we teaching, is there any point in teaching very correct grammar if your students are the only people using it.

does being the only sane person left in the world make you crazy?