"Pure" grammatical knowledge vs. vocabulary knowle

scw72 · Post by **scw72** » Tue May 15, 2007 6:17 am

Hello everyone,

Now I'm trying to revise a standardized grammar test in order to measure so-called "pure" grammatical knowledge since I think that many grammar tests which are already available seem likely to include test items requiring vocabulary knowledge ranther than grammar knowledge. So I just want to get your feedback or comemnts on the following test items --- whether they are more linked to syntactic knowledge or vocabulary knowledge. (I think that these items are more likely to measure learners' vocabulary knowledge, even though they are included in a grammar test). Thank you so much for your help in advance! -CW

1. A: How _____ do I have to check this machine?

B: About every twenty minutes.

(a) many (b) much

(c) often (d) soon

2. A: How’s John feeling these days?

B: He got _______ after he stopped taking his

medication.

(a) worse (b) the worse
(c) more worse (d) the worst

3. A: I hope we’ll have a sunny outing tomorrow.

B: I’m afraid ________. The weather report

forecasts a rainstorm will hit tomorrow.

(a) not (b) so (c) too (d) no

4. A: Do you know Tom well?

B: Yes, I ________ live next door to him.

(a) must (b) ought to (c) would (d) used to

6. A: If we start early, we should be finished before six.

B: Yes. Let’s just get this _______ today.

(a) over with (b) to over with

(c) over it (d) to over it

9. A: I called the number you gave me but _______

person answered.

B: Really? I’m sorry. I’ll check the number again.

(a) wrong (b) the wrong

(c) any wrong (d) all wrong

14. A: Let’s go see a movie tonight.

B: No, I’d ______ rather stay in and rent a video.

(a) little (b) less (c) much (d) more

25. Students who do not finish their thesis by ______ deadline will not be able to attend the graduation ceremony.

(a) the May (b) a May (c) May (d) in May

29. They had passed the course, __________ they thought it didn’t matter if they returned to class or not.

(a) because (b) so (c) though (d) when

31. It is thought that the first American Indians crossed a land bridge ________ North America from what is now Russia.

(a) into (b) about (c) of (d) at

39. ____________ forms of begging sometimes found

amusing by tourists offend many locals.

(a) Other (b) Another (c) Others (d) The other

Please choose one incorrect sentence

41 (a) A: It must be lunch soon. Do you have the time?

(b) B: No, I’ll skip lunch.

(c) A: I mean, what time is it now?

(d) B: Sorry, I don’t have watch.

43. (a) A: Fiona, can you come to our meeting on Friday?

(b) B: That depends. When exactly are you having it?

(c) A: We’re planning on having it around noon.

(d) B: Okay. I’ll check my schedule and get back you.

jotham · Post by **jotham** » Tue May 15, 2007 7:11 am

I agree with you that at least five of these aren't 100% grammar: questions 1, 3, 4, 29, and 39 could have more than one possible answer, gramatically speaking, if only the context were different. You can only choose the right answer after deciding the appropriate vocabulary or meaning for the given context in those questions.

Lorikeet · Post by **Lorikeet** » Tue May 15, 2007 4:53 pm

Hmm I couldn't see 3 and 4 having another "right" answer. What was the context you thought of?

jotham · Post by **jotham** » Wed May 16, 2007 1:36 am

Number 3:
There's a tornado one mile away — I'm afraid.
I'm afraid too.
Number 4:
Tim needs to have his house watched when he goes overseas every month.
Yes, I ought to live next door to him.
They might be a stretch, but still, those wrong choices are grammatically legitimate if only you could come up with better contexts than mine. In those exercises, the students can only choose the right answer based on the meaning of the words and not by distinguishing correct from incorrect grammar patterns. The wrong answers aren't wrong because of grammar, but because of vocabulary.

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Wed May 16, 2007 12:31 pm

Well, okay, if you totally change the wording of the first sentence each time, sure, you'll easily be able to use any of the suggested answers, Jotham. I think what Lorikeet meant (and what's usually meant in general on this forum when talking about possible 'contexts') is what non-linguistic, background information might we have not envisaged, which might help remind us of other possibly acceptable usages (among alternatives we'd previously dismissed).

Lorikeet · Post by **Lorikeet** » Wed May 16, 2007 3:33 pm

jotham wrote:Number 3:
There's a tornado one mile away---I'm afraid.
I'm afraid too.
Number 4:
Tim needs to have his house watched when he goes overseas every month.
Yes, I ought to live next door to him.
They might be a stretch, but still, those wrong choices are grammatically legitimate if only you could come up with better contexts than mine. In those exercises, the students can only choose the right answer based on the meaning of the words and not by distinguishing correct from incorrect grammar patterns. The wrong answers aren't wrong because of grammar, but because of vocabulary.

Oh. You completely divorced the given context, attempting to reply to the original question. I was thinking more like Fluffy Hamster.

lucy lace · Post by **lucy lace** » Wed May 16, 2007 6:58 pm

Possible contexts for:

4. A: Do you know Tom well?

B: Yes, I ________ live next door to him.

(a) must (b) ought to (c) would (d) used to

b) "Yes, I ought to live next door to him!" (said jovially, as in, "I know him so well, I might as well live next door to him!")

c) "Yes, I would live next door to him." (said thoughtfully, in response to A's question, "I'm thinking of moving next door to Tom. Do you know Tom well?" B's response would mean, "Yes, he's a good guy, I'd be happy to have him as a neighbor.")

JuanTwoThree · Post by **JuanTwoThree** » Wed May 16, 2007 9:28 pm

25. b) would be ok if there were a number of May deadlines.

All of the number 29 options make their own sense.

39 d) is fine if "the" means "those" .

Perhaps the only way of checking "pure" grammar is with nonsense words:

What is the passive of "Ping panged Pong"?

a) Pong is panged by Ping.

b) Pong has been panged by Ping.

c) Pong was panged by Ping.

jotham · Post by **jotham** » Thu May 17, 2007 2:13 am

fluffyhamster wrote:Well, okay, if you totally change the wording of the first sentence each time, sure, you'll easily be able to use any of the suggested answers, Jotham. I think what Lorikeet meant (and what's usually meant in general on this forum when talking about possible 'contexts') is what non-linguistic, background information might we have not envisaged which could remind help me us of other possibly acceptable usages among alternatives we'd previously dismissed.

Yes, I changed the text — didn't mean to confuse with context — to demonstrate that it is an exercise in meaning and not of grammar. A "pure" grammar exercise shouldn't have wrong answers that could suddenly fit the sentence if only the text were different.

jotham · Post by **jotham** » Thu May 17, 2007 2:20 am

Perhaps the only way of checking "pure" grammar is with nonsense words:

What is the passive of "Ping panged Pong"?

a) Pong is panged by Ping.

b) Pong has been panged by Ping.

c) Pong was panged by Ping.

Well, I agree this is one way to check "pure" grammar — and a rather theoretic one — but I disagree that it is the only way. When teaching English, it's always best to make sentences meaningful so that the learner is being engaged in many unconcious lessons at one time (which the clever textbook designer can manipulate and bring into full play), even though an exercise has a specific focus. Not to mention the interest factor. The trick with grammar exercises is to divorce only the answers from meaning — not the whole sentence or text.

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Fri May 18, 2007 5:57 am

Nice contexts, Lucy! I mistook you for JTT (our champion contextualizer) at first ('cos I was browsing with my mobile the other day, rather than a full-screen PC)!

JuanTwoThree · Post by **JuanTwoThree** » Fri May 18, 2007 7:36 am

"I would live next to him" could mean

"Although I knew him and was aware of the drawbacks I nevertheless chose to live next to him."

As in: to a person on a hospital bed covered in plaster:

"Well, you would climb that tree."

And "I must live next to him" could be a sudden compulsion. As in:

"I must stop thinking of contexts"

Oh and

41 d) I don't have watch

could be a sailor talking.