For verbs like: want, plan, try ... we use infinitive.
E.g. I try to read my book.
For verbs like: enjoy, suggest, mind ... we use gerund.
E.g. I suggest going to the cinema.
Are these rules always true?
William
Verbs+'to ...' & Verbs+'-ing'
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Practicing American English
Hey William.
"Are these rules always true?" Well, I don't hesitate to say no, just because of the frequency adverb, in my experience, nothing is always true, especially in language!
These two lists of verbs are from Grant Taylor's Practicing American English, in Exercises 485 and 486, meant to drill students in the usage of infinitive after certain verbs and the gerund after others. The idea of drilling such is to get the student to feel familiar with which to use depending on the verb in question, in the moment of saying the verb in question, thus avoiding having to remember mentally if the verb in question takes infinitive or gerund....if you've said it several times correctly in a controlled exercise, when you come upon it again it will either sound right or won't sound right....
Pattern Drill 485 (verb + infinitive)
refuse
hope
need
demand
plan
wish
expect
want
intend
promise
offer
forget
resolve
pretend
fail
decide
Pattern drill 486 (verb + gerund)
avoid
enjoy
finish
admit
put off
appreciate
suggest
practice
postpone
resist
consider
deny
delay
advise
stop
keep on
These lists are not at all comprehensive; however, again, the practice with simple substitution sentences prepares students for both the use of the two forms as well as the discovery of other examples of the two forms in every day language use and learning.
peace,
revel.
"Are these rules always true?" Well, I don't hesitate to say no, just because of the frequency adverb, in my experience, nothing is always true, especially in language!
These two lists of verbs are from Grant Taylor's Practicing American English, in Exercises 485 and 486, meant to drill students in the usage of infinitive after certain verbs and the gerund after others. The idea of drilling such is to get the student to feel familiar with which to use depending on the verb in question, in the moment of saying the verb in question, thus avoiding having to remember mentally if the verb in question takes infinitive or gerund....if you've said it several times correctly in a controlled exercise, when you come upon it again it will either sound right or won't sound right....
Pattern Drill 485 (verb + infinitive)
refuse
hope
need
demand
plan
wish
expect
want
intend
promise
offer
forget
resolve
pretend
fail
decide
Pattern drill 486 (verb + gerund)
avoid
enjoy
finish
admit
put off
appreciate
suggest
practice
postpone
resist
consider
deny
delay
advise
stop
keep on
These lists are not at all comprehensive; however, again, the practice with simple substitution sentences prepares students for both the use of the two forms as well as the discovery of other examples of the two forms in every day language use and learning.
peace,
revel.
25,000 times....
Hey lol!
He intends on going to the party? for example? If I say any of them 25,000 times they sound OK. I intended to make my point clear. I intended on making my point clear. Hmmmm....the truth is, the gerund form sounds better to me, perhaps an influence from the English people I know? (Haven't spoken English with an American since 1992....)
If the prescriptivist lynch mob comes knocking at your door, let them in, they always seem to animate what seemed to be innocent and dull message thread. The only pity is that they sometimes just make me want to shut up! Why do they think that any of us wants to be "right" or "wrong"?
peace,
revel.
He intends on going to the party? for example? If I say any of them 25,000 times they sound OK. I intended to make my point clear. I intended on making my point clear. Hmmmm....the truth is, the gerund form sounds better to me, perhaps an influence from the English people I know? (Haven't spoken English with an American since 1992....)
If the prescriptivist lynch mob comes knocking at your door, let them in, they always seem to animate what seemed to be innocent and dull message thread. The only pity is that they sometimes just make me want to shut up! Why do they think that any of us wants to be "right" or "wrong"?
peace,
revel.
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Andrew Patterson
- Posts: 922
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- Contact:
First of all, verb patterns are not dull. The encompass everything from modality to sence of purpose or lack of it.
I'm not a prescriptivist, I'm a descriptivist. At the moment "intend" is in section 17 of my Venn diagram - verbs that can be followed by a gerund or to+infinitive with minimal change in meaning. That said I personally only use the word with to+infinitive. I think that's because intention implies a strong sense of purpose which is always conveyed by to+infinitive, but while other people are using the gerund instead I'm not going to stop them. However, you two notwithstanding, I think that "to"+infinitive is currently in the process of becoming more popular than the gerund and if in ten or so years time more people begin to choose to+infinitive over the gerund then I may start saying that it's wrong. I won't fall into the trap of agreeing with someone just because someone used word prescriptivist as a perjorative term just because someone disagrees with me.
I'm not a prescriptivist, I'm a descriptivist. At the moment "intend" is in section 17 of my Venn diagram - verbs that can be followed by a gerund or to+infinitive with minimal change in meaning. That said I personally only use the word with to+infinitive. I think that's because intention implies a strong sense of purpose which is always conveyed by to+infinitive, but while other people are using the gerund instead I'm not going to stop them. However, you two notwithstanding, I think that "to"+infinitive is currently in the process of becoming more popular than the gerund and if in ten or so years time more people begin to choose to+infinitive over the gerund then I may start saying that it's wrong. I won't fall into the trap of agreeing with someone just because someone used word prescriptivist as a perjorative term just because someone disagrees with me.
Don't take it personally....
Hey there!
Andrew, please don't misunderstand my words! I hardly consider these topics dull, though a question can sometimes seem so until it begins to be debated.
I was also trying to be light with the "lynch mob" comment and was not at all thinking of you or really anyone else in particular, but rather, was thinking about all of us, any of us is quite able to get on our high horses when the subject seems important to us. For example, don't get me started on public school textbooks and teaching methods in EFL, I can really get going there.
As to "intend" followed by the infinitive, that list I gave earlier is from a book that was published in 1960 as a compliment to other structural practice books written in 1956. These books don't go much into the subject, but do not offer the gerund option at all with "intend". Just a historical curiosity, then, the infinitive was recognized as the more appropriate form in American English at least fifty years ago.
Have I fallen into a trap? I'm constantly setting them for my students, I just reach down and help them pull the bloody stakes from their torsos and wipe off the blood and get on with the exercises. I can only see "intend" followed by a gerund if in between there is an "on". That's simply because that is what sounds right to me. But my "sounds right" mechanism might just be pretty rusty, since I haven't spoken English since 1992 on a regular basis. Things that used to sound right now sound pretty foreign....
peace,
revel.
Andrew, please don't misunderstand my words! I hardly consider these topics dull, though a question can sometimes seem so until it begins to be debated.
I was also trying to be light with the "lynch mob" comment and was not at all thinking of you or really anyone else in particular, but rather, was thinking about all of us, any of us is quite able to get on our high horses when the subject seems important to us. For example, don't get me started on public school textbooks and teaching methods in EFL, I can really get going there.
As to "intend" followed by the infinitive, that list I gave earlier is from a book that was published in 1960 as a compliment to other structural practice books written in 1956. These books don't go much into the subject, but do not offer the gerund option at all with "intend". Just a historical curiosity, then, the infinitive was recognized as the more appropriate form in American English at least fifty years ago.
Have I fallen into a trap? I'm constantly setting them for my students, I just reach down and help them pull the bloody stakes from their torsos and wipe off the blood and get on with the exercises. I can only see "intend" followed by a gerund if in between there is an "on". That's simply because that is what sounds right to me. But my "sounds right" mechanism might just be pretty rusty, since I haven't spoken English since 1992 on a regular basis. Things that used to sound right now sound pretty foreign....
peace,
revel.
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JuanTwoThree
- Posts: 947
- Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 11:30 am
- Location: Spain
to be or being, that's the question
Looking at lists of verbs followed by to --- (or the infinitive if you must) I can't be the only one struck by the "afterwardsness" of the verb after "to".
You plan/hope/intend/expect/decide etc and then you act, or not. Think of time from left to right and see that in "When I was a boy I wanted to be a policeman" the want is on the left and the be on the right.
By the same token you you can only enjoy swimming if you have done so. In other words the swimming is on the left and the enjoy on the right, using the same mental picture.
"I would like to teach English if it was/were better paid" or "I would like teaching English if it was/were better paid" depend on if the speaker is a teacher or not.
Some verbs which "take both" where there is a difference in meaning, such as stop, remember and forget, can be seen in the same way . So can try and prefer, at a stretch. It's harder to see why start, begin and continue should be so unfussy, though.
I'm having trouble though with fitting in anticipate, suggest, recommend and avoid, amongst others; it's curious ( or not?) that very good students often make mistakes with just these verbs.
Forgive my overly long musings on my first ever post. I'm trying to put into words an intangible feeling that there is more to this than just lists to be learnt. You might need to teach the meaning of obscure-ish verbs, which are not merely synonyms of words they do know, to a large sample of advanced students and see if they instinctively "knew" if these verbs were followed by to.... or ....ing.
You plan/hope/intend/expect/decide etc and then you act, or not. Think of time from left to right and see that in "When I was a boy I wanted to be a policeman" the want is on the left and the be on the right.
By the same token you you can only enjoy swimming if you have done so. In other words the swimming is on the left and the enjoy on the right, using the same mental picture.
"I would like to teach English if it was/were better paid" or "I would like teaching English if it was/were better paid" depend on if the speaker is a teacher or not.
Some verbs which "take both" where there is a difference in meaning, such as stop, remember and forget, can be seen in the same way . So can try and prefer, at a stretch. It's harder to see why start, begin and continue should be so unfussy, though.
I'm having trouble though with fitting in anticipate, suggest, recommend and avoid, amongst others; it's curious ( or not?) that very good students often make mistakes with just these verbs.
Forgive my overly long musings on my first ever post. I'm trying to put into words an intangible feeling that there is more to this than just lists to be learnt. You might need to teach the meaning of obscure-ish verbs, which are not merely synonyms of words they do know, to a large sample of advanced students and see if they instinctively "knew" if these verbs were followed by to.... or ....ing.
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Stephen Jones
- Posts: 1421
- Joined: Sun May 18, 2003 5:25 pm
You intend to do something, but are intent on doing it, just as you are commotted to doing something, but committ yourself to do it.
Juantwothree is correct that you can combine many of the individual verbs in a list in some more general lexical category. The problem, as has also been said, is that there are clear exceptions to that tendency - really we ought to teach it as a help to memorizing, rather then a rule, or even a rule-of-thumb to apply.
Juantwothree is correct that you can combine many of the individual verbs in a list in some more general lexical category. The problem, as has also been said, is that there are clear exceptions to that tendency - really we ought to teach it as a help to memorizing, rather then a rule, or even a rule-of-thumb to apply.