noseless old newsboy, the old British brigadier... et alias

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Sam_T
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Location: Ukraine

noseless old newsboy, the old British brigadier... et alias

Post by Sam_T » Fri Jul 02, 2004 10:24 pm

Hello,
I'm translating the Rolling Stones lyrics into Russian. Several question appeared during translation the song "Who's Been Sleeping Here". Well, sometimes it happens that not only the knowledge of the language itself one needs while translating but knowing some realia... :roll:
Below is the whole text, the phrases typed in bold are not clear. Of course, such characters as Goldilocks or Three Musketeers are world-wide known; the painting "Laughing Cavelier" doesn't say much to an average Russian speaker although the information about it can be easely found; but what about the rest marked in bold? Could you make it clear? how a native English speaker understands these?

-----
What you say girl, you see what is wrong.
You must be joking, you was led along.
But the butler, the baker, the laughing cavalier,
will tell me now, who's been sleeping here.
I want to know tell me, baby, who's been sleeping here!

What you say girl, who'd you see that night.
I was doing, doing something right.
Oh, the soldier, the sailor then there's the three musketeers,
yes, they'll now tell me now, who's been sleeping here.
Did I ever tell you I want to know, hey baby, who's been sleeping here!

Don't you look like, like a goldilocks.
There must be somewhere, somewhere you can stop.
Yes there's the noseless old newsboy the old British brigadier,
but you'll tell me now, who's been sleeping here!
Who's been eating, eating off my plate.
Who will tell me, who'll investigate.
There's the sergeants the soldiers the cruel old grenadiers,
but they'll tell me, now, who's been sleeping here!

'Cause I want to know who's been sleeping right here.
Was it your mummy, your daddy, who's been sleeping here?
Was it your auntie, your uncle, who's been sleeping here?
Was it your boyfriend, your girlfriend, who's been sleeping here?
----
Thank you for your attention! :)

revel
Posts: 533
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 8:21 am

Postman always rings how many times?

Post by revel » Sat Jul 03, 2004 6:26 am

Hey there.

Considering classroom economy, I would not use this Stones song to teach anything. There are much more useful songs out there. Naturally, sometimes a student comes in with a song saying "can you translate this for me?" and we can give a general review of the meaning of the song, but class time is precious and valuable and the teacher should always chose the material and the material should always help move the students on towards the objectives of the class. So, can you explain how translating this song to Russian helps your students?

I'm a native speaker, as well as a person who enjoys the music of the Stones. Yet many times I could listen to one of their songs and not understand half of what they are singing. When I have the lyric in front of my nose, I can understand the words, the general gyst of the poetry, but they are using a different set of symbols in English than I am familiar with, so I would not try to translate the bold text because I really don't know who those people are culturally. However, I can see that the title of the song is an important clue: Who's been sleeping here? Doesn't matter who the noseless paperboy is, what matters is that a man is asking a woman "Who's been sleeping in my bed when I'm not here?", not an unusual theme in popular music, maybe he's been out working like a dog and she's been inviting the entire neighborhood in for a quickie!

Thus, giving a couple of examples of who these people are lining up for a piece of the action would be enough, challenge your students to find out the cultural or metaphorical significance of the rest of the characters in the poem. They all just appear once, it's the girl who is important, and the man who is asking her that difficult question, not the secondary characters. And look for songs with useful classroom application, not just songs that you think your students will like. "Tom's Diner" by Susan Vega, that old standby that uses the present continuous in a nice clear manner in a nice clear, easy to understand story with a subtle (ha) love story sub-text, for example.

peace,
revel.

Andrew Patterson
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Post by Andrew Patterson » Sat Jul 03, 2004 9:51 am

If you use Tom's diner try not to discuss which hair she is refering to in the lines:
And I'm trying
Not to notice
That she's hitching
Up her skirt

And while she's
Straightening her stockings
Her hair
has gotten wet
It might just be my dirty mind, but in the context of her hitching up her skirt and straightening her stockings, it's probably open to more than one interpretation.

Sally Olsen
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Post by Sally Olsen » Sat Jul 03, 2004 2:47 pm

Isn't this song based on the old nursery rhyme
Tinker,
Tailor,
Soldier,
Sailor,
Rich Man,
Poor Man,
Beggar Man,
Thief


Doctor,
Lawyer.
Indian Chief

Seems to me there was something more in that second verse because it doesn't scan.

Good way to introduce different jobs.
A butler is a man who looks after a family, helping the man to dress, arranging appointments, taking care of his clothes, and bringing him his brandy in the evening.
A baker would bring the bread and cakes to the house.


It seems to be a lot of people who might visit a house of rich person though so perhaps it means that the couple are well off.

I think it is really fun to do this activity no matter what the song. Like any good poetry, it generates a lot of discussion and people have totally different views on what it can mean. Some know different meanings for the groups of words. Since talking seems to be what you want the students to do, it seems to me like a really good topic. Patrick Dias has a good book on teaching poetry and it applies equally as well to song lyrics.
The rest of the bold type is too British and military for me to understand.

revel
Posts: 533
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 8:21 am

Shocking!

Post by revel » Sat Jul 03, 2004 5:04 pm

Hey guys and gals!

Andrew, your mind is dirty, I'm shocked! Joking there. The truth, I'd never thought of that section in quite that way and you've given me a laugh. I ought to have, since I see all kinds of sexual conotations in Vega's The Queen and the Soldier, especially the lines that say:

"I have swallowed a secret burning thread / It cuts me inside and often I've bled / and he laid his hand then on the top of her head / and he bowed her down to the ground"

I would be less likely to think dirty thoughts if the next line weren't the soldier asking the queen just how hungry she is....

I must also admit, for a teacher who knows any song really well and is good at interpretation of poetry, I suppose any song would be useful as a launch for debate on meaning, metaphore, etc, but I also suppose that such activity would take place in classes with more developed levels of oral communication....

peace,
revel.

Andrew Patterson
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Post by Andrew Patterson » Sat Jul 03, 2004 5:44 pm

more developed levels of oral communication
Ooh! Suit you Sir! :twisted: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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