I'm about to start my second year at an adult buxiban. the students are anywhere from 18-50, men and women, class sizes of 3-12 with very mized proficiency levels.
I've got a problem with a lack of structure in my classes. I used to have a textbook, but structuring courses too rigidly made new students reluctant to start classes in the middle of a semester because they would feel left behind. My boss removed the textbook from all but one class, so now I prepare all the class materials myself and mostly 'teach' conversation.
It's an easy job, but I have some problems that I sense are only going to get bigger next year. For one thing, making chitchat all day is boring for me. There's no challenge and I'm developing no marketable skills doing it.
It's not so great for the students either. There's just no sense of urgency in a conversation class. If students don't come, I want them to feel like they missed something other than a good time. I'd also love to offer them more than just conversation practice. I see real improvement in their english ability only when I teach them something (grammar, vocabulary) in a focused way and reinforce it with drills. Of course, they often complain when i introduce more focused lessons and insist on 'more conversation.'
The biggest problem with a structureless class, though, is that teaching conversation alone automatically limits the size of my classes. Once regular attendance rises above six in any class, students start to complain that the class is 'too big' and everyone disappears. If I could somehow offer more than an opportunity to chat with a real-live foreigner, students would show up even when they're not getting as much individual attention as they'd like.
How can I deal with some or all of these problems without using a textbook or boring the students to death with drills? I'd like to begin each class with a grammar or vocabulary lesson, say half an hour (longer than that and they'd mutiny), then give the students one hour of freeform conversation to practice what they've learned. I have no idea how to go about this systematically, however. I've tried introducing class themes based on frequent errors i've observed in the past, but this approach feels disorganized.
I have already read the available threads on conversation classes. Any ideas are welcome. thanks.
adding structure to a conversation class
Moderators: Dimitris, maneki neko2, Lorikeet, Enrico Palazzo, superpeach, cecil2, Mr. Kalgukshi2
Don't know if my reply is "advice" to you...
I am basically faced with the same situation over here in the PR of C; the problems you have listed are the exact identical ones I find here. Is the problem related to the cultural background of our students?
First of all: do we as teachers have to do as we are bidden? Are Chinese bosses competent to decide that their paying clients know what's best for them?
I believe we must sometimes lock horns. I have since year one in this milieu been telling my CHinese opposite numbers that I don't think very highly of organised conversation meetings.
If they insist on having a westerner take care of them they ought to have the maturity to accept some of my input. In my view, they simply lack maturity. They can't relate to topics, people and things that do not have a direct bearing on their personal lives!
Also their mastery of the English language is highly questionable. Do they listen to one another? Or are they just in class to get a special kick out of my presence, hoping this boosts their self-confidence?
Can they focus on anything? Can they digest feedback? Will they change their speaking habits once I tell them what I find peculiar about them?
Most of the time, I spend my energy trying to make them aware of their poor listening ability and attention span; for a class of 25, let alone 50, people to have listened attentively to what someone else has said is quite a feat in China or Taiwan! And to be able to comment appropriately on what's been said is another hurdle.
Maybe they should talk less, and listen more!
I am basically faced with the same situation over here in the PR of C; the problems you have listed are the exact identical ones I find here. Is the problem related to the cultural background of our students?
First of all: do we as teachers have to do as we are bidden? Are Chinese bosses competent to decide that their paying clients know what's best for them?
I believe we must sometimes lock horns. I have since year one in this milieu been telling my CHinese opposite numbers that I don't think very highly of organised conversation meetings.
If they insist on having a westerner take care of them they ought to have the maturity to accept some of my input. In my view, they simply lack maturity. They can't relate to topics, people and things that do not have a direct bearing on their personal lives!
Also their mastery of the English language is highly questionable. Do they listen to one another? Or are they just in class to get a special kick out of my presence, hoping this boosts their self-confidence?
Can they focus on anything? Can they digest feedback? Will they change their speaking habits once I tell them what I find peculiar about them?
Most of the time, I spend my energy trying to make them aware of their poor listening ability and attention span; for a class of 25, let alone 50, people to have listened attentively to what someone else has said is quite a feat in China or Taiwan! And to be able to comment appropriately on what's been said is another hurdle.
Maybe they should talk less, and listen more!
Roger, thanks for your reply. While it is good to know that I am not alone dealing with some of the problems we're discussing, I should mention that for me student behavior is not one of them. Some students can be quite rude and competitive in class, but most are well-mannered and attentive, take copious notes, listen to each other, and remember everything I say, sometimes better than I do myself. I like most of them a lot and a few have become personal friends.
The problem is that they're just not learning much. Sigh.
You raise a good point in your reply. Should we do as we are bidden? How much should we direct the class and how much should we facillitate merely and act as a resource? My boss has zero influence on my lesson plans, but as a private school teacher I feel that I am working for my students, so of course I try to give them what they want. I think they want a little structure and drill, but don't know it yet. Does that make sense?
Are our problems related to the students' cultural backgraound? Possibly yes. I suspect that in their anti- grammar attitude they are reacting negatively to years of excessively technical taiwanese-style language instruction. It is possible as well that I just suck at teaching grammar. There is also a perception, justified in many cases, that as foreign teachers are not 'real teachers' they should stick to conversation practice and leave the teaching to the teachers. One student told me that if he wants grammar practice he will always prefer a taiwanese teacher to a foreigner.
You say that students are unwilling or unable to relate to issues that do not directly affect their personal lives. I have found this to be the case too, so I limit my classes to very light conversation. Don't know about yours but my students are likely too tired after a 10-hour working day to join me in working out the meaning of life.
Thanks again. BTW, if you have time I hope we will have a chance to compare notes on lesson plans.
The problem is that they're just not learning much. Sigh.
You raise a good point in your reply. Should we do as we are bidden? How much should we direct the class and how much should we facillitate merely and act as a resource? My boss has zero influence on my lesson plans, but as a private school teacher I feel that I am working for my students, so of course I try to give them what they want. I think they want a little structure and drill, but don't know it yet. Does that make sense?
Are our problems related to the students' cultural backgraound? Possibly yes. I suspect that in their anti- grammar attitude they are reacting negatively to years of excessively technical taiwanese-style language instruction. It is possible as well that I just suck at teaching grammar. There is also a perception, justified in many cases, that as foreign teachers are not 'real teachers' they should stick to conversation practice and leave the teaching to the teachers. One student told me that if he wants grammar practice he will always prefer a taiwanese teacher to a foreigner.
You say that students are unwilling or unable to relate to issues that do not directly affect their personal lives. I have found this to be the case too, so I limit my classes to very light conversation. Don't know about yours but my students are likely too tired after a 10-hour working day to join me in working out the meaning of life.
Thanks again. BTW, if you have time I hope we will have a chance to compare notes on lesson plans.
sounds like the stuff I say
This post sounds exactly like what I've thought about teaching oral English classes. As far as I'm concerned, making chit-chat is not only boring, it's also something I'm terrible at.
This is how I cope. Basically, I was taking a Chinese class which was basically a mirror image of the class I was teaching. A bunch foreigners (foreign to China) being taught Chinese all in Chinese.
1. First, I prepare a topic ahead of time (eg going to the bank). I begin class with an open discussion about the topic (mostly me trying to prompt the students to say something).
2. Then, we I introduce some vocabulary. Only a few words. We talk about what the words mean and how to use them.
3. Then, we read a dialogue. I try to help the students improve pronunciation and understand exactly what they are reading.
4. Finally, I ask the students to make an impromptu dialogue (either repeating the same conversation in their own words or picking up where the dialogue ended.
...
Sounds simple, but it's taken me almost two years to come up with that. What I like is that it's simple, gives some structures the students (and teacher) can follow, and is actually, pretty flexible.
Michael M.
Teaching English in Guangdong
http://www.thekungpaochicken.com
This is how I cope. Basically, I was taking a Chinese class which was basically a mirror image of the class I was teaching. A bunch foreigners (foreign to China) being taught Chinese all in Chinese.
1. First, I prepare a topic ahead of time (eg going to the bank). I begin class with an open discussion about the topic (mostly me trying to prompt the students to say something).
2. Then, we I introduce some vocabulary. Only a few words. We talk about what the words mean and how to use them.
3. Then, we read a dialogue. I try to help the students improve pronunciation and understand exactly what they are reading.
4. Finally, I ask the students to make an impromptu dialogue (either repeating the same conversation in their own words or picking up where the dialogue ended.
...
Sounds simple, but it's taken me almost two years to come up with that. What I like is that it's simple, gives some structures the students (and teacher) can follow, and is actually, pretty flexible.
Michael M.
Teaching English in Guangdong
http://www.thekungpaochicken.com
Quite good advice. Maybe it even works?
Personally, on the top of my wish list is the request to my students to actually learn something at home before coming to class. Or to "English Corners". I think, if I take my time to prepare something entertaining and edifying for them, then the least I could get in return is some gratitude in the form of an interest in the upcoming discussion; this they could show by learning relevant words by heart.
A conversation class ought to be conducted without the strain of acquiring a host of new key words; new vocables should be of such a limited number as to allow students to ask "that word... can you say it again? Spell it? So I can check it in my dictionary..." To "teach new words" every time a conversation class begins makes it too formal in my opinion; in fact I doubt we are supposed to teach them new words but to PRACTISE WITH THEM what their CHinese teachers have taught them.
I noticed in English Literature classes at a very early stage that no matter how I put it across, my CHinese students NEVER go out of THEIR WAY of sitting in the classroom and waiting for me to tell them which page to open their book on, and to repeat after me.
That's not how I learnt other languages, and it'[s not what I fancy doing.
I hope your students are more cooperative, active and inquisitive than those I have met over the years.
Personally, on the top of my wish list is the request to my students to actually learn something at home before coming to class. Or to "English Corners". I think, if I take my time to prepare something entertaining and edifying for them, then the least I could get in return is some gratitude in the form of an interest in the upcoming discussion; this they could show by learning relevant words by heart.
A conversation class ought to be conducted without the strain of acquiring a host of new key words; new vocables should be of such a limited number as to allow students to ask "that word... can you say it again? Spell it? So I can check it in my dictionary..." To "teach new words" every time a conversation class begins makes it too formal in my opinion; in fact I doubt we are supposed to teach them new words but to PRACTISE WITH THEM what their CHinese teachers have taught them.
I noticed in English Literature classes at a very early stage that no matter how I put it across, my CHinese students NEVER go out of THEIR WAY of sitting in the classroom and waiting for me to tell them which page to open their book on, and to repeat after me.
That's not how I learnt other languages, and it'[s not what I fancy doing.
I hope your students are more cooperative, active and inquisitive than those I have met over the years.
I agree with you that it'd be nice if students learned something before coming to class. English corners, I must admit, I really don't like. Since the students generally don't have anything they want to talk about, they just want to say English words, the conversations are usually void of any content.
I disagree with you about the vocabulary being too formal. In fact, I think I should be providing my students with more vocabulary words. In the past, I didn't emphasize this, and I found the classes had little direction. Now, at the end of a semester, even the students who don't get a chance to talk much, can at least say they learned a hundred or two hundred new words or expressions.
The way foreign teachers I've been put into classes without any information about students or curriculum, I don't think there's any way I could make my classes too formal. I try to give my students plenty of time to converse in class (whether or not they take it), but a structured, formal environment I feel gives a little more sense of purpose.
There's a lot more I'd like to say, but I like to keep my posts reasonably short, cause I know I don't read the long ones.
www.thekungpaochicken.com
I disagree with you about the vocabulary being too formal. In fact, I think I should be providing my students with more vocabulary words. In the past, I didn't emphasize this, and I found the classes had little direction. Now, at the end of a semester, even the students who don't get a chance to talk much, can at least say they learned a hundred or two hundred new words or expressions.
The way foreign teachers I've been put into classes without any information about students or curriculum, I don't think there's any way I could make my classes too formal. I try to give my students plenty of time to converse in class (whether or not they take it), but a structured, formal environment I feel gives a little more sense of purpose.
There's a lot more I'd like to say, but I like to keep my posts reasonably short, cause I know I don't read the long ones.
www.thekungpaochicken.com
Re: sounds like the stuff I say
Michael, this sounds like a good plan but do you mix it with other lesson formats? If I did this every time I think my students would get bored.
flexible structured class
In fact, I don't want to write out every thought I have about teaching. That would take too long and miss the point. Yes, I mix it up a bit. If you read my earlier post, you see I referred to that lesson plan as being 'flexible'.
The point I want to make is about what I've learned from experience. Experience for me says that having a format to build on in class makes students become less bored because they can concentrate on what they're learning rather than how they're learning and is much more effective than a free for all conversation or game with 40 students.
www.thekungpaochicken.com
PS I'm really considering these posts thoughtfully and today discussed with my class what they thought about the way I was teaching them. They didn't want me to increase the amount of vocabulary I was teaching them, but they didn't seem to mind the amount I was introducing them.
The point I want to make is about what I've learned from experience. Experience for me says that having a format to build on in class makes students become less bored because they can concentrate on what they're learning rather than how they're learning and is much more effective than a free for all conversation or game with 40 students.
www.thekungpaochicken.com
PS I'm really considering these posts thoughtfully and today discussed with my class what they thought about the way I was teaching them. They didn't want me to increase the amount of vocabulary I was teaching them, but they didn't seem to mind the amount I was introducing them.
Hey, mooney,
quite well thought-out advice.
Do you teach your students English grammar as well/ My advice would be to use English as the medium of instruction rather than Chinese!
I do deplore that our CHinese colleagues never, or very rarely, bother to use English themselves; yet this is the only way for them and for our students to actually use this language effectively and in a meaningful way.
There ought to be no verbatim translations given by Chinese teachers! Students would have to conceptualise those grammar notions in the target language.
That's what foreign language teachers at western schools do! No mother tongue instruction in the foreign language classes!
Thus, both teachers and students are forced to seize on those really important opportunities when they can use that language!
And, if our CHinese English teacher colleagues used English more often, their students would feel less inhibited in using it as well. It seems to me it's the Chinese English teachers who cause Chinese students to feel embarrassed in using English!
quite well thought-out advice.
Do you teach your students English grammar as well/ My advice would be to use English as the medium of instruction rather than Chinese!
I do deplore that our CHinese colleagues never, or very rarely, bother to use English themselves; yet this is the only way for them and for our students to actually use this language effectively and in a meaningful way.
There ought to be no verbatim translations given by Chinese teachers! Students would have to conceptualise those grammar notions in the target language.
That's what foreign language teachers at western schools do! No mother tongue instruction in the foreign language classes!
Thus, both teachers and students are forced to seize on those really important opportunities when they can use that language!
And, if our CHinese English teacher colleagues used English more often, their students would feel less inhibited in using it as well. It seems to me it's the Chinese English teachers who cause Chinese students to feel embarrassed in using English!
you've touched on an interesting point
No, I don't teach them grammar. At the start of each term, I tell them what I will and won't talk about. One thing I don't talk about is grammar, unless they have a question, or there happens to be some particular point we can discuss.
Why did you raise the point about the medium of instruction being English? I only communicate with students, inside the classroom and outside, in English.
Why did you raise the point about the medium of instruction being English? I only communicate with students, inside the classroom and outside, in English.