This should be done by anybody.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:52 pm

Does this work? And if not, why not?

This should be done by anybody.

woodcutter · Post by **woodcutter** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:07 am

I'd say not.

Always choose "some" over "any" unless it is a negative/question, and do not make the sentence passive for no reason?

Or say "everybody" if that's what you mean.

Stephen Jones · Post by **Stephen Jones** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 9:13 am

Somebody should do this
is best.
This should be done by somebody
makes me wince, but is still correct. I presume you are using 'this' as shorthand for 'any subject'.

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 9:22 am

Always choose "some" over "any" unless it is a negative/question

Really? What if the sentence were This could be done by anybody?

The difference between some and any (and consequently someone/body/where/thing and anyone... etc) is semantic, not grammatical and has nothing to do with positive/negative/question. Unfortunately I'm at work and don't have time to go into the details now.

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 12:21 pm

lolwhites wrote:The difference between some and any (and consequently someone/body/where/thing and anyone... etc) is semantic, not grammatical and has nothing to do with positive/negative/question. Unfortunately I'm at work and don't have time to go into the details now.

Why not just direct 'im to Lewis, lol?

I find Lewis's "any" examples rather superfluous (regarding the use of "any", unsurprisingly!), however:

I like some pop music.
I don't like some pop music.
I like any pop music.
I don't like any pop music.

(page 33 of The English Verb)

"Pop music" is "whole" enough, without the need to add something meaning "all" (i.e. "any"), whereas delimiting part of that whole (with "some") is a more obviously useful option.

That is, I am more inclined to say "I don't like opera (full stop)" than "I don't like any opera" ("I don't like any [old] opera - I like Beethoven's Fidelio, for gawd's sake, surely the greatest opera ever composed!!!"

); although, upon reflection, I might qualify that "I don't like opera" by saying, "Well, that's not true, I do like some opera - Wagner, and some Strauss, for example. Lehar's operettas are nice, too."

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 1:25 pm

I sometimes show the difference with this pair:

Mike's single and looking for someone.
Bob's single and looking for anyone.

Who's more desperate, Mike or Bob?

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:54 pm

[

quote="woodcutter"]I'd say not.

Always choose "some" over "any" unless it is a negative/question,
I'd disagree with that. That is fine for lower level ESLers, but:

Let's see what happens if we take the basic semantic meanings of some and any:

Some is used if the idea is limited or restricted in some way.
Any is used if the idea is unlimited or unrestricted.
Any applies to all, or none; some applies to a part.

E.G.

I like any classical music.
I like some classical music.
I don't like any classical music.
I don't like some classical music.

Or say "everybody" if that's what you mean.
Probably a good idea.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:57 pm

lolwhites wrote:
Always choose "some" over "any" unless it is a negative/question
Really? What if the sentence were This could be done by anybody?

The difference between some and any (and consequently someone/body/where/thing and anyone... etc) is semantic, not grammatical and has nothing to do with positive/negative/question. Unfortunately I'm at work and don't have time to go into the details now.

I agree. The problem seems to lie with the obligation reading of "should" combined with the non-specific nature of "anybody".

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 4:04 pm

"fluffyhamster"

(page 33 of The English Verb)

"Pop music" is "whole" enough, without the need to add something meaning "all" (i.e. "any"), whereas delimiting part of that whole (with "some") is a more obviously useful option.

Not even if one needs to be: emphatic, more precise, to make a comparison, to contrast?

John doesn't like some classical music. Me, I like classical music. I don't mind which CD you play.

John doesn't like some classical music. Me, I like any ( type of) classical music. I don't mind which CD you play.

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:54 pm

Wow, nice substitution with pronoun "it" there (why the mania in TEFL for contrasts?! Just "Do you like classical music - mind if I put some on?" "Sure (I like it) go ahead", or "What shall I put on? Classical? Jazz" "I don't mind (anything's fine)" would make a change, eh!

); and thoroughly convincing use of "some" there too, metal!

Heh excuse the sarcasm, point taken alright. CONTEXTMAN, whoever he is and wherever he may be (battling rogue sentences) should consider handing his leotard, y-fronts and cape over to YOU!! (after washing especially the y-fronts, of course).

woodcutter · Post by **woodcutter** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:09 am

Gah! I thought my grasp of Headway Elementary would see me through. Foiled again.

Yes, the "rules" proceed from the semantics. Actually, we have to add imagined situations to that negatives/questions list, because these are also situations where "anybody" is not made into an absurdity by the context. Since anybody means something like "person (no example excluded)" it is essentially a large or even limitless number of people. When we use it in certain situations, like the example provided, it sounds like "everybody". We do not use it that way - it must be replaced by everybody in such a situation.

woodcutter · Post by **woodcutter** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:03 am

What did you eat yesterday? An apple was eaten by me.

"Do not passivize without reason" is not a toothless stricture.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 6:54 am

woodcutter wrote:Gah! I thought my grasp of Headway Elementary would see me through. Foiled again.

... When we use it in certain situations, like the example provided, it sounds like "everybody". We do not use it that way - it must be replaced by everybody in such a situation.

Wouldn't that depend on the meaning of should in each case?

Stephen Jones · Post by **Stephen Jones** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 11:04 am

"Do not passivize without reason" is not a toothless stricture.

It's a meaningless one though. What are the reasons for passivization? (hint think, theme and focus, or theme and rheme).

revel · Post by **revel** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 7:12 pm

CONTEXTMAN!

CONTEXTMAN! has to admit that the last offering here makes him feel poetic.

Theme and focus
Sounds quite bogus (near rhyme)
Theme and rheme (not rhyme)
Sounds like a scheme
Scheme skeen
Dream team
Rules are made to be broken (free verse)

peace,
CONTEXTMAN!

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