Job Discussion Forums

[spiral78]

Volunteer work is better than nothing, but it will NOT make your online ocurse + experience equal to a 'proper' cert course. This is because no-one will supervise and critique your volunteer work.

It's the feedback on how you do by experienced teacher trainers that makes the difference.

[santi84]

Volunteer teaching (+ a TEFL without a practicum) would not be an adequate substitute, IMO.

I did both actually I did my supervised teaching practice on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, and volunteered in a different classroom on Tuesday and Thursday, in a local church for immigrants.

In the volunteer classroom, your efforts will be appreciated by the (likely overworked and underfunded) instructor and students. The students are unlikely to criticize a volunteer. You will gain excellent experience and have a lot of fun, but you won't have much to show for it. You can walk into the classroom every morning after a long night's sleep

In the practicum classroom, I spent at least 30 minutes after each class with my supervising instructor going over my lesson plans, tomorrow's plans, blunt constructive criticism about what needed improvement, and had a binder about 5 inches thick of lesson plans/comments/materials to show for it. It's a huge difference. You NEED to critical eye of the evaluating instructor (mine had 25 years of solid TESL experience). The students will be advised to give their honest feedback about you to their instructor, and they will do so if they know that you are training to be a teacher. They will want to help you, even if it means criticizing! Yes, even all my Korean and Chinese students... there's no "saving face" for a student teacher You won't get a great deal of sleep I spent 2-5 hours each night preparing comprehensive lesson plans and creating materials from scratch (it was a terribly underfunded government program).

[Captain_Fil]

Thank you spiral and santi, for such valuable insights.

I am a thousand times thankful for having joined ESL Cafe. I am acquiring so much precious info and advice that will save me time and money in pursuit of an ESL teaching career.

This is better than discussing the latest episode of Smallville or Supernatural on Syfy. I used to spend my time on such nerdy fluff stuff.

Who cares about the identity of the Fifth Cylon? So what if the Elves of Lothlorien have gray eyes instead of blue? And whether a Klingon Warrior can overcome a Jedi Knight is irrelevant.

What matters is a good career so you can have a good life.

[spiral78]

the latest episode of Smallville or Supernatural on Syfy. I used to spend my time on such fluff stuff.

Who cares about the identity of the Fifth Cylon? So what if the Elves of Lothlorien have gray eyes instead of blue? And whether a Klingon Warrior can overcome a Jedi Knight is irrelevant.


Hmm. Some language I don't know above

Anyway, thanks for taking advice in a positive way - not everyone does. You should go far

[Captain_Fil]

[artemisia]

Santi84:In the practicum classroom, I spent at least 30 minutes after each class with my supervising instructor going over my lesson plans, tomorrow's plans, blunt constructive criticism about what needed improvement, and had a binder about 5 inches thick of lesson plans/comments/materials to show for it.
That brought back a few memories.

If you're going to go for an onsite CELTA (highly recommended as everyone else has said) and it's possible for you to do this, I would also suggest checking out a few providers and trying to meet the trainers in advance. When you've done that, then decide which provider has the right 'feel' for you. I wished later that I had done that but time was of the essence for me so I didn't look around. Not that my one was bad but I found out that the trainer who'd interviewed had very little to do with the actual course ( ) and I wasn't wild about the other two trainers. I wasn't alone in being sorry about that, the other particpants felt much the same way. But all trainers were competent so don't worry if you can't do this.

[Captain_Fil]

I've heard that Cambridge University has just started an online CELTA course.

Members are raving about it: http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=87156

So what do you guys think?

[spiral78]

Some of us think it's a good idea - others not. You can decide for yourself

I think it's a bad idea for the reasons I've mentioned in the other thread: unless a trainer has worked with a potential teacher directly for the month of a normal training course, how can that trainer basically check off the trainee as a viable newbie teacher, with respect to

1. daily attendence, punctuality, preparedness (all vital to daily teaching)
2. general ability to work with others in positive and effective ways
3. overall presentability and professional persona

Personally, I wouldn't hire even a CELTA holder from an on-line course, and I think it's a pity to dilute the currently trusted brand name.

[Captain_Fil]

[UnkleBuk]

Quick question as a follow-up to what everyone has already posted......20 year Navy retiree with a BS in Business Management and now an MA in Teaching (Elementary Ed), which included 150 hours of practicum working in a kindergarten classroom followed by a 4-month, full-time student teaching in a 3rd grade classroom. During the student teaching months, I ended up taking over the class completely for the last couple of months with continuous feedback from my cooperative teacher who had 13 years experience and was an excellent mentor. I was also observed several times by my university supervisor as well as the school's principal.

I've been considering BridgeTEFL, either the CELTA offering, online or blended IDELT (looks to be a new version of TEFL and provides up to 3 graduate hours with the University of Northn Colorado, who I happen to have my MA through), or one of the other in-class or blended TEFL offerings by BridgeTEFL. Since I live in Denver, attending the local BridgeTEFL location is simple enough, and I'm not really concerned with the college credits.

With my practicum and student teaching experience, along with the observations I received, would a completely online course be suitable? If the Main purpose is to help toward classroom management, including working with a diverse student population, I'm quite comfortable with this. I also taught and managed classes/courses throughout the last 1/2 of my Navy career.

Thanks!
Michael

[nomad soul]

UnkleBuk:

You didn't state what content area your MAT program was in, but I'm assuming it wasn't in bilingual ed---that you don't hold an ESL endorsement. (Teaching ESL/EFL is not the same as teaching content such as math, history, social studies, etc.)

You also didn't say which countries you were interested in, but if you're intent on teaching EFL at the adult level, there are some options. For some regions, TEFL certs generally aren't needed; while in others, employers are fine with an online cert. Either way, you wouldn't receive supervised teaching practice. Plus, you limit yourself to just those countries/jobs and will lack a competitive edge when applying for more desirable positions. On the other hand, for regions like the Mid East, you'd need a CELTA, Trinity, or equivalent on-site TEFL cert---one that's at least 120 hours and entails supervised teaching practice with real students. This also includes university graduate-level TEFL certs fitting this critera.

[spiral78]

In your case, if you are heading to some part of the world where online certs are accepted, and you are planning to teach children only (not adults) I'd say an online cert might suffice.

Might teach adults? You need the onsite version.

Where are you thinking of teaching, and to whom?

[UnkleBuk]

MA content area was in parenthesis, elementary ed. My basic question at the end was regarding the purpose behind the "observed" lessons during classroom TEFL/CELTA certs. If the main purpose is for practice and observation in a real classroom setting, then would it really be necessary to take such a course vs. online if the purpose was to gain insight into what teachong on an actual classroom was like. Having spent several months in a classroom setting during my MA, I find it hard to fathom that a whole 6 hours of additional classroom teaching will have a significant impact other than to give someone a burst of, "this is what it's really like, and it ain't as easy as you might have imagined," persoanl clarrification. Something I failed to mention is that I have spent time in a highly diverse school during my practicum with a large number of English Language Learners in teh school/classroom, so have taken part in classes focusing on these students quite a bit.

As for countries, thinking of starting in Costa Rica for 6-months, maybe a couple of years, then go from there. At some point, heading to the EU. My wife has dual US/EU citizenship, so we'll cross the citizenship/working visa for me in the EU as we approach ot furtherdown the road.

The UAE is also on my radar, but again further down the road, and by then I plan to have at least a graduate cert in ESL or otherwise.

For now, with my Navy pension and my wife's pension from the UK (retired police detective), we're doing this to get out and about in the wrold again as opposed to trying to make money; just supplement our income and stay busy doing something we want to do....teach and travel. If we were doing it to make money, Costa Rica wouldn't ve on our list of choices since we've been tossing this around for a while now.

Seems to be varying opinions as to onecert program being better/worse than the other, but the concensus I've seen thus far is that a cert of 100+ hours isthe way to go, just trying to determine exactly how useful is that 6 or so hours of classroom teaching to someone that's been in a classroom full-time teaching for several months with feedback on their teaching and management from several individuals.

Yes, teaching English to students who speak little-to-no English is more of a challenge, but again, if the basic concepts of teaching, lesson planning, and classroom management are the same, and you are just bringing in varying strategies for use with English language learners, I still fail to see how vig an impact those 6 hours of classroom time could make.

I'm a firm believer in learning as much as I can if it's going to help me be a better teacherr, but I also don't like to waste time/money if it's not. This is why I'm wondering how much impact the 6 hours in the classroom will have.

Thanks again,
Michael

[UnkleBuk]

At some point I may teach adults, but prefer teaching kids. I entered the corporate world after retiring from the Navy and left the I was with to teach because there was no satisfaction in the job. Kids give that immediate feedback that lets you know how you're doing, and if doing well, tons of satisfaction.....as many of you know.

Also figured, when I left the corporate world, if I was going to listen to whining, it shouldn't be 30-80 year olds. At least when kids whine, I can accept it since they are "kids!"

[spiral78]

If you end up in the EU, particularly in Northern, Central, or Eastern regions of the continent, you are more likely to find yourself teaching adults. I think there is more work with kiddies in Spain and perhaps some of the other southern countries.

Kids are taught language primarily in state-run schools, by local teachers here. the pay at state schools is very low; you'd make more teaching businesspeople. Even this is barely subsistence-level (I understand you would have other income) but the pay at state schools below university level (and even there) is really at the token level. That's if you even found a job in a state school; as I said, English language (and other subjects) are mostly taught by local teachers under university level.

For the EU, anything less than a CELTA or equivalent won't be considered very highly. The face-to-face component is really considered key by most employers, and as you are likely to find yourself making an age group shift, it would really be of benefit to you to have at least the 6 hours of practice, with feedback.

From a pragmatic standpoint, in the EU, as most new teachers have a CELTA or equivalent on-site cert, anything less puts you at a disadvantage on the job market.

Basically, if I were in your situation, I'd go for the CELTA or equivalent now to avoid any possible need to do it later in order to compete effectively on the EU job market.

You will also want to do some research on where you, as a US citizen married to a UK citizen, can get legal work permits. Not every Eu country will issue you a work permit based on this - though some do. Basically, your spouse can work wherever she wants, but depending on the coutnry, you may be entitled only to a residential status, or residential + work permit. The Netherlands, for example, will not issue you a work permit if you are there on a spousal basis.

If you're eligible for UK citizenship, that solves any problem, of course.