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Skinny on Vietnam
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BenE

Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 321

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:00 am Post subject:

As Rosy as RMIT is for salary it still demands quite a lot from teachers. You have to be onsite for 40 hours even if you only teach for 20 hours. Sometimes this might be during the holiday period so you have to be there doing something (research, planning etc.) Also you should be there at around 7am if you are on the morning schedule for teaching is what the RMIT instructors told me. It's a job worth considering but I think it also comes with some sacrifices.

vabeckele

Joined: 19 Nov 2010
Posts: 439

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:33 am Post subject:

LettersAthruZ wrote:

I'd have to go along with the consensus here......basically, yeah, Viet Nam is great for a gap-year adventure........but long-term financial goals? Even a somewhat comfortable lifestyle with some money able to be saved at the end of every month.....????

Not likely......

.....is it just me, or is this thread becoming a giant advert for RMIT?

Yes, I'm glad somebody said it.

I got off of an airplane with no previous knowledge of the country and I had no idea what my chances were, except that I was pretty much likely going to start at a language mill - That's what happened. I've been bounced around here a lot. One thing holds true, whether the university, college, language centre, school is shiny or not they all have the problem of keeping staff. I have worked in one of these shiny colleges and the only constant is the change in managerial staff trying to keep up appearances with the knowledge that things are falling apart. Yes, the materials may be there at RMIT, but what about the knowledge? It isn't. And that holds true for ALL places.

The British uni? Well would you take a place seriously if you had to call him: His Royal Highness The Prince Charles Philip Arthur George, Prince of Wales and Earl of Chester, Duke of Cornwall, Duke of Rothesay, Earl of Carrick, Baron of Renfrew, Lord of the Isles, Prince and Great Steward of Scotland, Royal Knight Companion of the Most Noble Order of the Garter, Royal Knight Companion of the Most Ancient and Most Noble Order of the Thistle, Knight Grand Cross of the Most Honourable Order of Bath, Member of the Order of Merit, Knight of the Order of Australia, Companion of the Queen's Service Order, Member of Her Majesty's Most Honourable Privy Council, Aide-de-Camp to Her Majesty.

Or is it easier just to tell it like it is and call, Mr Tuan? He has stolen everything from these places and uses them in his own university system.

ExpatLuke

Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 744

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:47 am Post subject:

VietCanada wrote:

Yes many of those things can be found. For a price assuming it is the real thing and not some knock off. Buffalo meat burgers are not NA hamburgers. Pasta sauce made with a mayonnaise concoction is not NA pasta sauce. Sitting in a small, narrow, lightly padded, wooden chairs, eating sugared, buttered popcorn is also not my typical movie theatre experience from home. The electricity going off as it has three times in the past 10 days is not what I experienced back home. Knowing why would be nice but in the end it's irrelevant. The power going off is very inconvenient and initially upsetting if one is engaged in working on the PC or even playing a game or watching TV. This does not happen back home.

You can overcome these obstacles but as you've said it is quite outside the pay of a typical EFL'er. It may be worth the cost to buy a generator, spend $50 per or so to probably get an authentic western cuisine main course, buy a water filter to use tap water for something other than bathing, install a device for hot water, buy nice, new furniture that isn't just unpadded wood or cheap pressboard which disintegrates in the humidity, purchase electronic goods that don't fail within weeks, living in a place with a separate bedroom, equipped kitchen and private bath etc.

Learning the language so you really know what your neighbors and others think of you is small consolation.

If you move to a foreign country because you are enamoured with it and wish to make your last stand there then you can be happy. If you like teaching and traveling then you aren't going to spend on furniture, electronics or other creature comforts that you take for granted back home. Like electricity and hot water.

The disagreement isn't about VN or any other country, it's about career goals and motivation. If you want to spend your life here you can and you'll probably make a good life for yourself in the manner you expect according to best wages you can earn. If you're just passing through or haven't made that huge decision then no, absolutely this place and others is not like home. Apples and oranges.

What's unrealistic is suggesting to newbs with difficulties in their own country that coming here is just like home but cheaper. Easy work that's easy to find and you can live like a king. That is utter nonsence just as glossing over the reality of an uncertain supply of hot water, electricity and wages.

I don't have any disagreement with you about your career goals. I don't even know what they may be. I'm disagreeing with you on your portrayal of Vietnam in general.

I'm not sure where you're getting your information from, but it certainly isn't first hand. You have multiple people telling your that your 'information' is incorrect, and you don't really seem to have any examples to back up your claims.

Electrical appliances don't simple fall apart... furniture is actually cheaper here than I've seen in the US. I've never not had hot water. Sure the electricity goes off from time to time, but it's infrequent enough that I've never been bothered by it. Actually, I much prefer the movie theaters here in Vietnam that most of the ones back home. I get to pick my seat, I can ensure that my whole party sits together, I don't have to worry about coming early for good seats, the seats are comfortable just like any movie theater I've ever been in. That's not the standard where I grew up in the US.

I don't know your situation, but I have to ask how long have you been living here? And where are you living that you don't have hot water, electricity, have to spend 50 to get a western meal? Just last week I had steak and lobster for about $15 usd in a very posh restaurant I took a date to.

Unless you're working as a volunteer at a less than desirable language mill, your image of life in Vietnam is about backwards as you can get...

If what you have described truly is your situation, then you have my condolences.

Concerning the comments I've been reading about RMIT and international schools, I can't say I can agree with many of those either. RMIT isn't a super exclusive club that's difficult to get hired into. If you just have the basic credentials (a degree and CELTA) you can be hired if you have a good interview and demo lesson. The same goes for many international schools. You don't need a degree in Education all the time. Many schools are hiring English teachers to teach regular classes because there's a lack of state certified regular teachers. Also, someone said that these international schools don't like to see that you have work experience at a language mill on your CV. That's completely untrue. Any experience you have teaching the age groups they're hiring for is highly desired by these employers.

1st Sgt Welsh

Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 946
Location: Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:53 pm Post subject:

This has become a really interesting discussion Smile

BenE wrote:

As Rosy as RMIT is for salary it still demands quite a lot from teachers.

You have to be onsite for 40 hours even if you only teach for 20 hours. Sometimes this might be during the holiday period so you have to be there doing something (research, planning etc.) Also you should be there at around 7am if you are on the morning schedule for teaching is what the RMIT instructors told me.

It's a job worth considering but I think it also comes with some sacrifices.

Yep. They really do take good care of their staff but you're expected to perform. In regards to starting at 7am, like you said, that does happen, but it is for only one of a host of shifts, or 'streams' as they call them. If you are not a 'morning bird', a seven o'clock start can be heavy going, but at least you are not expected to do splits, unlike other schools out there.

I'm not sure whether I'd go so far to say that this thread has become "a giant advert for RMIT". Many people here have been critical of the conditions on offer in Vietnam and some posters, who are knowledgeable about the packages available at RMIT, have countered that it's not all doom and gloom. Personally I think that's fair enough.

kurtz wrote:

I guess by "nanny state" you mean the government tries to control lives too much. It's your choice to live in Vietnam which isn't a nanny state, but have fun if you need police assistance for anything. Perhaps driving on the roads wouldn't be such a dangerous experience if Vietnam was more of a "nanny state" or that foreigners wouldn't get ripped off for housing if there were rules to follow, or any of the other wild west behavior the locals like to indulge in.

Thanks for the reply kurtz.

By "nanny state", I don't really mean "that the government tries to control lives too much", although I do agree with this to an extent. And, you're right, I do kind of like living in places where you have to rely a bit on your wits. Another thing I really enjoy is knowing the types of people that you meet here and places like it. They are often far more adventurous and interesting than most of the people you'd met back home IMHO.

What I did mean by "nanny state" is that there is growing mentality in many Western countries, including Australia, that adults do not need to be held responsible for their own actions/laziness/stupidity because there is always a reluctant taxpayer or plaintiff that will do that for them. I could give scores of examples, but I don't want to derail the thread.

I will say this though. I've traveled a lot through a lot of poor countries and witnessed a lot of human suffering due to extreme poverty. It irks me when I go back to Australia and hear and see cases of three generations of the one family who have literally never done a days' work in their life! It makes me angry, perhaps more than it should. Whilst, believe it or not, I do admire the 'safety net', I abhor the culture of entitlement that it seems to breed. If we could just find a way to have one without the other then I'd probably feel very differently Confused

.

Just for the record, I don't believe we should do away with governments; I'm not an anarchist. You mentioned funding for education, health etc. and I don't begrudge that. Paying an army of bureaucrats to shuffle paper around is a different matter. The amount of waste that occurs in the Australian public sector is beyond belief and to continue the cycle all they need to do is to threaten a productive source with jail if they don't cough up their outrageous tax bills.

You mentioned the corruption that occurs in Vietnam and I am certainly not going to defend it. However, there is plenty of corruption in the West as well. It's just less visible there. That's not being 'PC', that's just a fact. The United States is an excellent example. Corporations spend more on lobbyists and political donations than they do on advertising. Think about that. This is all legal, but it begs the obvious question: why would they do this unless it is to gain political favors [which is the the textbook definition of corruption]? Anyway time to move on Embarassed

kutz wrote:

You seem like a decent chap Sarge, but may I ask what your goals are here? You mentioned that you can save without trying, but how much can you save? If you want to live in a lawless society, that's cool, but I fail to see how anyone can talk Vietnam up as a financial destination. It's a good place for those who want to live in a sunny SE Asian country with beautiful scenery, but if you want a future in terms of financial stability, have fun trying.

I don't think that I've talked up "Vietnam up as a financial destination". I just haven't 'talked it down'. A small distinction maybe but I feel the point should be made. I've been very clear and consistent in my posts, both on this thread and others, that, in my view, there are better places for money than here. However, Vietnam offers, IMHO, both the chance to save while having a good lifestyle at the same time. How many places in the world of TEFL can you actually say that about? It would certainly be a minority.

You also mentioned high inflation. I don't deny it. Even so, like I wrote before, what I was spending on accommodation in a week back in Australia four years ago was only slightly less than what I am paying for a month now in a better apartment. Taxes, entertainment and food are also much, much cheaper than in the West. If you are supporting a family then I guess the dynamics may change but, for me, these four things are my main items of expenditure.

In regards to how much I'm able to save, I've already given detailed information about my finances on page two of this thread and I'd prefer to leave it at that. I will say that my outgoings have remained pretty much the same since that original post, but my income has gone up. In regards to my own plans for the future, sorry, I don't really want to touch on that on an open forum. Don't get me wrong, under the circumstances, it was a fair enough question, but many of the people I work with know my handle and I'd rather not get into that here for personal reasons.

I'm With Stupid

Joined: 03 Sep 2010
Posts: 432

Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:22 am Post subject:

VietCanada wrote:

Sitting in a small, narrow, lightly padded, wooden chairs, eating sugared, buttered popcorn is also not my typical movie theatre experience from home.

I watched The Hobbit in 3D at 48fps in Saigon. Most American cinemas aren't equipped to show that. And if they are, they charge at least twice as much.

1st Sgt Welsh

Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 946
Location: Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei

Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:34 am Post subject: