Job Discussion Forums

[ntriolo8]

(Note: I did a forum search, figuring this would be a very common topic, but didn't come up with any good results.)

This is purely academic for the moment, as I am working elsewhere for the foreseeable future, but I am wondering about the best university jobs in mainland China, for people with normal but unexceptional ESL qualifications (i.e. CELTA and 5+ years' experience). I used to live in China as a kid, and would be interested in returning some time. I could only really see myself teaching at a university level.

Some considerations would be the reputation of the institution, the pay and benefits, work atmosphere, location (I have no idea about which cities are the most desirable to live in these days), and so forth.

I look forward to hearing from people who have experience there.

[naturegirl321]

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=95023 some are here.

[Alien abductee]

There are so many unknown and unheard of schools here that you won't learn anything about them unless you actually contact people with direct experience there. Most everything I found out about the place I am, work atmosphere, living conditions, what to do in the city, I got from someone who was already here. I took the job and have been happily employed since.

Some things won't be hard to suss out, environmental conditions you can find out easily enough, and most university jobs have fairly standard benefits (qualify of those benefits might vary). it's the intangibles that can make or break your existence - how capable is your FAO in dealing with things, having English major students vs non-English majors, and that sort of thing. This stuff just isn't readily available in some online database (this site you're on now might be the closest you'll get to that).

[Non Sequitur]

Alien touches on my point which is that the quality of the experience may not aligned with the status of the university.
My best experience was at a provincial level 3-year associate degree vocational college.
Pay, accom and other benefits are pretty standard across FT positions in the public ie state sector.
OP should look at the Job Offer Checklist thread and then apply with a condition of acceptance being the ability to contact former teachers.
There will always be a leap in the dark at the end but covering off what you can is good strategy.
And one last point. The uni hiring season is almost over, so carpe etc.
Best
NS

[Shroob]

[roadwalker]

I agree with Non Sequitur and the rest: I'd skip the school reputation part unless you were interested in having a (relatively speaking) famous institution on your resume/CV. You might get a great situation in a lower tier school. Not guaranteed of course. An upper tier school may also give you a good situation and probably higher English-level students, but they may also have you teach classes with very low English ability. Pay in Guangdong is generally higher but it'd be a good idea if you could figure out your prefered location first and then find a good school (good as in pay, living conditions, and treatment of teachers). Good luck.

[vikeologist]

The top universities don't pay more than the rest (sometimes less) as they expect you to be grateful for the chance to teach there.

On the other hand, if the academic standards of the Uni as a whole are important to you, its reputation may factor in. One of the few drawbacks of the Uni I've just finished working in was that it was a bit embarrassing to be working somewhere with such terrible teaching. On the other hand, being one of the few redeeming features of a pointless education might have made the students more attentive in my / our classes.

[Shroob]

[ntriolo8]

Thanks all for the illuminating posts, and particularly to naturegirl for linking to that relevant thread. As I said this is academic for me at the moment, but hopefully others will continue to share opinions and up-to-date info and make this thread valuable to others interested in China's unis.

[MisterButtkins]

Echo what others said about 'good reputation' schools. The reputation of the school really will only help a little bit in getting other jobs within China, and it doesn't help that much in my experience. I person with better qualifications, or who knows other teachers that already work there, will probably get a job over someone who taught at a 'famous' school.

If you worked at Qinghua or something, it might help you get a better job in the future; but if you can get a job at Qinghua, why not just get a BETTER JOB NOW? Working at a well-known Chinese uni to bolster your resume doesn't really make sense, in my opinion.

Another thing: I moved to Beijing about a month ago from a smaller town and now work for a uni here. A person I met who works here helped me get the job. I have since figured out that basically, at least in Beijing, the people who work for the Unis all know other people who work for better unis, and they use these connections to gradually percolate up the chain to the best uni positions and/or private gigs. What this means for you, the applicant, is that the best uni jobs aren't available to you. They will go to people already in Beijing who know someone who works there and can go to in-person interviews. People already here also have easier visa paperwork and such.

[Riff Raff]

Good info, Mister Buttkins. Though I must politely clarify that getting in early, particularly when no foreign competition exists, doesn't help, contrary to what "they" say. It more so comes down to connections and a willingness to gratefully accept whatever is given to you, no matter how atrocious. There are very few exceptions.
May you be one of those exception. Shine on.

[Timer]

[Janiny]

Not trying to be difficult, but do you understand how vast a nation China is? You said you have lived here as a kid. My interpretation of that is that you had no idea what was going on.

You may as well be asking what's the best kindergarten in America to send your child - you will even consider Alaska or Hawaii, and you remember going to kindergarten when you were young.

Having a CELTA and 5+ years' experience are quite good qualifications for China when you consider they'll take any native English speaker (preferably Caucasian, presumably sane and in good physical health) and not so ugly as to scare small children.

As strange as it might seem, university positions are among the easiest to get as they may pay as little as $800/month. In many cases you merely have to email them, attach your CV and a photo (to determine your plug ugliness or lack thereof) and you're in! Really. I've written to some universities and was offered a year's contract within the hour. (Truth be told: I'm probably better qualified than you are, but then again, you're probably better looking and less nuts than me).

Other universities are more discerning, which makes me respect them more. Private language schools are more discerning still because they have to think about how their clients will like you and that they might be upset if you have no idea what you are doing.

Personally I go for middle, junior and high schools in remote areas for the higher pay, and the opportunity to be stared at like a zoo animal on the street.

As for reputation of the institution, the pay and benefits, work atmosphere, desirable location, etc. Well, that's what this forum is all about, and you can read old and incoming posts from now until the night your plane leaves and you will be none the wiser.

I find that it's impossible to even give directions to a place a few blocks away in a big city here because it's all so wonderfully complex and ever changing. And you ask which university is best ?

You'll just have to see for yourself, and when you do , you'll write posts much like this one.

To close: a traditional Irish blessing: May the wind always be at your back, and may you be in heaven half an hour before the devil knows your dead.