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ghost · Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 1693 Location: Saudi Arabia

Hello

It would be interesting to know what are your average grades for Oral English, for Freshmen and Sophomores at your normal average Chinese university?

It is that time of year again with exams coming up and the allocation of grades. There is always some degree of subjectivity in allocating oral English grades.

On the one hand - so many of my students tell me 'my English is so poor' - but this is countered, on the other hand, by students being dissatisfied with grades lower than 90, for their final exams, so I think there is a certain amount of grade inflation expected here.

At this time, my averages, up till now, have been in the 80- 85 percent range which is a good percentage, back home, but it seems that this is considered low in China. So when Ms. Chen/Wang/ or Yang complains about her grade, I feel like telling her 'but you told me your English was so poor, and I could barely hear you during the oral exam test!' - but she is still disappointed.

In Saudi, where I worked for 7 years, most of my students accepted their grade (fate handed down by Allah Akbar) and did not complain, post grade posting. This despite the fact that Saudi students (males) tended to be rather boisterous (to say the least) in class and outside class. Here, in China, it is the opposite dilemma, that I am facing, with compliant behavior in class, generally, but frequent dissatisfaction post grade allocation.

Thank you for your feedback, which might help me in my grade allocation this semester. A revision of my policy may be in order, following your feedback and reasoning.

Ghost in China

mitsui · Joined: 10 Jun 2007 Posts: 1562 Location: Kawasaki

Sounds like the little emperor problem.
Growing up as a single child, they don't realize they are not as smart as they are told.

twowheel · Joined: 03 Jul 2015 Posts: 753

This:

mitsui · Joined: 10 Jun 2007 Posts: 1562 Location: Kawasaki

It happens to Japan to the degree that you feel that you must mollycoddle.
I don't but then I am considered strict.

Some cannot listen to reason. I had a student from Xian who had a tirade in class after I told him that he had been absent too much, and could fail.
He walked out and never returned.

Compared to Japanese some Chinese can be emotional. Other Chinese are very easy to teach.

OhBudPowellWhereArtThou · Joined: 02 Jun 2015 Posts: 1168 Location: Since 2003

My observation in public universities is that most FTs couldn't find their own butts with two hands, put in no effort toward preparation for class and wind up playing guitar in class or teaching the class obscenities and insults. To prevent blowback, they give no tests (incriminating evidence) so they hand out A's to keep everyone happy.

I have been lucky. Most of my classes actually responded to my attitude and curriculum.

The foreign languages departments have come to expect very little from the numpties who arrive claiming to be teachers, and the attitude spreads to the students.

In the low-performing classes I grade on their improvement. If they don't try, they fail. If they struggle but make little progress, they earn a C.

I have had quite a few students who hadn't given much effort in English class since high school, but who performed admirably by midterm. They struggled, failed miserably, then started making progress. Those kids made A's and B's. I think that much had a lot to do with the fact many of them wanted to be part of the Friday lunch or dinner discussion group. Lunch or dinner with Mr. Bud was usually the only thing going on campus.

My advice is sort of a Charlie Parker attitude. Learn your ABCs and the basics, then forget all that and just talk.

It works.

I'm not a pushover. I put the responsibility of their education on their shoulders.

ghost · Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 1693 Location: Saudi Arabia

joe30 · Joined: 07 Jul 2016 Posts: 112

It might be so in Canada, but the idea that one needs 1 million dollars to be financially secure in most places in Asia is obviously complete rubbish.

Noting of course, there's a difference between 'financially secure' and 'I'm never going to work again, and I'm going to retire on a beach in Bali drinking champagne every night'.

rioux · Joined: 26 Apr 2012 Posts: 880

LarssonCrew · Joined: 06 Jun 2009 Posts: 1308

You'll slate the foreign teachers for trying to do something you believe doesn't work in the class, and yet my students have often complained that every single subject taught by Chinese teachers is the same, a version of a text book projected onto the board and they simply 'chalk and talk'.

Often Chinese teachers think teaching everything should be the same as they learn Chinese, through time and grind. They've never heard of interaction, student centered learning, they've never heard of activities, cocktail questions, sessions asking and answering and alot of the grammar classes I've seen are taught 90% in Chinese with zero output from the students other than simply writing down what the teacher wrote on the board.

AND, Chinese have one of the lowest capabilities of English at university level I've ever seen, does that not mean that the Chinese teachers are doing a shockingly poor job of teaching? But you slate the foreigner coming in who hasn't gone to a college and got a teaching license...

ghost · Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 1693 Location: Saudi Arabia

rioux · Joined: 26 Apr 2012 Posts: 880

rogerwilco · Joined: 10 Jun 2010 Posts: 1549

OhBudPowellWhereArtThou · Joined: 02 Jun 2015 Posts: 1168 Location: Since 2003

Most of the university students whom I teach and who major in English are excellent speakers with good attitudes. The problem students tend to be those who major in International Trade. Some are very good speakers, but most are not-so-good. At one school, the FTs were removed from the IT students' curriculum. It was impossible to get through to them. The FTs kept giving them D's and F's.

I can't tar all of the schools with the same brush. There are excellent universities in some tier II and III cities. My experience and observation is that vocational colleges that don't have a strong English program don't attract strong speakers.

Guerciotti · Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:10 pm Post subject:

When I taught English at a uni, my average grade was about 85%, and I know my grades were subject to 'review', if you know what I mean. Don't worry too much about the grades you give, just keep them high. Sorry, your grades don't matter. I don't fret about things I cannot change.

Speaking of frets! Heaven forbid we should bring a guitar to class! I hate acoustic, I prefer electric, but the acoustic guitar is a conversation starter, great for singing a quick song (with the students), and a useful tool for the 'warm up activity' that current pedagogy seems so fond of. It creates interest ("Can you play?" No! But that doesn't matter!), it starts conversations, it gives the guitar player (not me, a student) a chance to show off and an excuse to speak English with the teacher, and it creates a relaxing atmosphere. Everyone loves music, use that! Sadly, it is best used sparingly. I have not brought a guitar to class for two or three years.

I teach subjects now, but I keep my acoustic at my desk. It ultimately causes students to converse in English, and that is still part of my job. It opens up many opportunities to speak English with students who don't talk much.

Whatever means you have to encourage conversation improves your teaching. I cannot fathom this general disdain for using guitars in a language class, unless you're teaching SAT Reading or some such.

/end guitar rant

Non Sequitur · Joined: 23 May 2010 Posts: 4724 Location: China

First Point: How do you grade 50 students per class for Oral English, which by definition is a unique personal skill? Most schools require a mark based on both class and final assessment performance.
Second point: How many teachers know the Oral English exposure their students (especially freshers) have had?
Address the second point before writing off your students as ill-prepared or some epithet.