Job Discussion Forums

[jr1965]

Rick,

The first time I taught excerpts from the JLC was in Korea. I was teaching a 12-week course to mostly first-year college students who were at an advanced level.

We focused on the relationship between Lindo Jong and her daughter Waverly. We read "The Red Candle" "Rules of the Game" and "Four Directions."

The students in class were all old enough to understand (and sympathize with) Waverly's situation. Many of them had lived through something similar (parents who wanted them to do better than they did, always pushing the kid to do better, do more, be the best; who try to live through their children, etc etc). We explored the metaphor of chess used in "Rules of the Game" and "Four Directions" and discussed how Waverly�s relationship with her mother was that of pawn to queen. The stories also brought up for ss generational issues (Lindo Jong = traditional values; Waverly = modern young woman). If I recall correctly, we read "The Red Candle" last--b/c this is the story in which Waverly's mother recalls her own youth. It was interesting after having read the other two pieces to go back and see that Lindo Jong had once been a girl with many of the same wishes and hopes as Waverly. Everyone responded well to all of the stories b/c of the universal themes explored.

Forgive me, I�m writing this very quickly and have little time today to say more, though there is a lot to talk about in terms of how we went through the stories; what things were most challenging for the students, etc. Will write more on the weekend.

JR

[Deconstructor]

I think authentic literature is absolutely essential to ESL/EFL learning. In fact, I believe that all ESL texts should be scrapped and replaced with authentic material such as magazine/newspaper articles, short stories/novels, DVD documentaries/talk radio.

This way we would help students save money and we would put out of business all the charlatans who write ESL/EFL books such as Spectrum (by far the worst text ever produced) American Inside Out (a close second) and all the rest like Headway and Interchange that are at best minimally boring, extremely trite, condescending, patronizing and insulting to both teachers and students. They treat students and teachers as if they were five year old autistics. All ESL/EFL authors should be put up against the wall shot and pissed on.

[dyak]

[Deconstructor]

[dyak]

[Stephen Jones]

What does Decon dislike so much about the post First Certificate Headway Texts, or the fourth volume of Streamline?

What they suggest you do with the texts might be inappropriate but the texts themselves are an excellent basis for discussion, and in general pretty interesting.

[dyak]

I just find it disturbing that students can read, understand and insert sentences into a film review from an FCE or above text book but can barely understand an actual film review written by an actual film critic in an actual newspaper.

[AsiaTraveller]

[moonraven]

I agree that the textbooks are crap: pre-chewed and pre-digested to keep the students coloring inside the lines while learning a language. And I have yet to come across one that addressed the cultural situation or needs of Latin American students.

As for film reviews--and other written realia--students should read them--despite the flaws in the writing styles of some film critics. I know the business, as I was a film critic for a number of years in the US, and most of my "competitors"--in the sense that they were writing for other newspapers--nattered out drivel, told us the direction their thumbs were pointing, and gave stars or bombs. I can understand why students would find that a bit imprenetrable. But we aren't all cromagnon cine-crunchers.

[Glenski]

Perhaps a lot of ESL/EFL books are bad, but if I read you guys right, you'd like to have BEGINNERS start learning English by reading newspapers? Is that about right?

Silly and absurd. Running before crawling.

[Deconstructor]

[dyak]

Beginners need structure more than anything, they don't need to read from day one, it's not possible. I remember being about Pre-Int level when our French teacher thrust the authentic material upon us. It was too hard but I'm glad she did. She created the atmosphere of being in France, with films, texts, literature, music, radio... and we progressed as if there, once the shock had settled...

[Deconstructor]

[Glenski]

So, are you defining an intermediate learner as one who has a vocabulary of only 100 words?

Regardless, I still think it is way too early to throw headline news articles (too difficult) and advertising (while short and to the point, much of it is not grammatically correct, nor complete, and a lot of it is full of slang, jargon, and idioms; all of which are too much to expect for someone with a 100-word vocabulary to sift through. I mean, 100 words is about 3 or 4 lessons worth of most vocabulary. Too soon and certainly in the deep end of the pool, as you wrote.)

I still agree that many ESL/EFL texts have mundane tasks in them, but to get people up to the intermediate level, I don't see as how you can put so much on their plates as news articles. Perhaps the country you live in has better students. Here in Japan, even six years of high school English doesn't prepare students for reading much beyond a Penguin level 3 graded reader, let alone a newspaper article or movie review. And, it certainly doesn't produce anything approaching an intermediate level speaker!

[dyak]