Job Discussion Forums

[Riddick]

The reason why I'm asking this question is to see if anyone meets this problem in their College.

When I go to class I will start a topic in my lessons for the students to learn to speak to me. But they say nothing to me. So I change quickly and try to get them to write a dialogue so they can speak to each other to learn. But they just still sit there looking at me. One ask me what is a �dialogue�? So I have to repeat my words very slowly one by one and still they look at me?

Am I doing something wrong?.

I play the tape for them to learn with their books then ask them �Did you hear the tape?� NO they say, so I play it again & again and still they all say the same word.

What should I do?

I talked to the leader about this problem I had and he suggested that I should write everything I said to them on the board so they could read it. But I said this way they couldn�t learn to speak & listen in English. They only learned how to read. He told me not to care too much.

But I really care about my job a want to help

I did mention to him that I was not here for writing everything on the board of what I said in my class. I was here to help them learn speaking and listening. He said you worried too much about the students. I can see that if they can�t listen, that�s their problem. So I replied by this way many student would walk out of my class. He said just let them go. I asked him what about their English level or test. � don�t worry we will pass them all.�

If we can�t teach what are we doing here in China or is it just for our white faces??

It seams to me in many small cities in China the leaders or local teachers don�t really care about if the students can learn English or not just as long as the college can receive their payments from the parents for making money. As for the students education in learning English none really cares. So should we?

[mmm... pancakes]

Ok, first off: what do you mean by "college"? Are you talking about a high school, a university, or a private institution? That is, how old are your students?

Chances are you ARE there only as a white face - that's a reality in China that can take some getting used to. It's probably the case with me, too, BUT: I take my job seriously, and expect my students to take their classes seriously too.

So, how to get your students to talk more?

I'm no expert, but maybe try this:

Ask a student - one specific student - why they are here. They should say something like "To learn English". Do the same with another student, then another, then another. Every student should say "To learn English" or similar. If they say "To have a sleep" or something, don't hesitate to tell them not to return. They can bugger off to their rooms/house to have a nap.

So by doing this, you have students who a) want to be there, and b) know why they are there.

Given this, you can start them off really simple. "How do you learn to speak English?" "By practice." You'll quickly comes to the point: to learn English you need to open your mouth, and TRY. They should get the message in the first lesson you do this with them, but you might need to repeat it later on.

Now that it's explicitly stated why they are there, and how they should act when they are there, try them off on REALLY SIMPLE stuff. "What's your favourite colour?" etc - just to get them opening their mouths. Do this sort of thing for the first few minutes of a class to get them in the mood for speaking. Then move on to the topic of the day, or whatever you're teaching.

Many - if not all - of these students are spared the requirement of thinking from the time the enter school. They often need things to be explicitly stated before they open their brains. Try and go really slowly to start with, and you might find that by the end of the lesson they're talking almost like normal people.

Opinion is divided on the subject, but I say that dictionaries are great. If a student doesn't know a word, encourage them to look it up in their dictionary and practice saying it in a sentence.

But like I said, I'm no expert on this stuff.

Good luck.

[Riddick]

Hi mmm... pancakes. Thank you for your suggestions.

Here in this College all the students age is from 16-21 I teach grade one most of them are 18-20.

I was told most of them just came from Middle school and did not go to high school. so their english level is very low.

I wanted to teach them words first but the leaders and local teachers don't want me to do this way so I must follow them.

[Cdaniels]

I've had a lot of jobs where I think my bosses are shortchanging clients. Including jobs where I thought I could personally make a real difference. I learned a few things from these experiences.
1 Find a student or two who you can connect with, who really wants to do well, but don't assume he/she/they are the brightest or best students - it could be a matter of personal chemistry.
2 Teach to the class, but only look for validation from the motivated students. Favoritism my have its drawbacks, but
3 Realize this is for your psychological well-being. Your boss(es) are right, even when they are wrong. Look for another job if you must, but don't undercut their authority.

[tedkarma]

Re: writing on the board - Your students, if their level is so low, may need more than one level of input to really "get" what you are saying. You can fade out the writing later - but try it and if it works - use it. Use ANYTHING that works - and fade it later if it is not exactly what you want.

I agree with Cdaniels - teach for the students that are really interested and really care - I always teach for the front row (or two) - those are usually the students who are there to get something from the class. You'll rarely reach everyone in the class.

Cultural things being what they are - many students are afraid to speak in class - and you'll need to create a relatively safe environment that they trust - and that also can take a little time. It is a rare class in Asia anyway - where students will willingly start talking immediately. Silly as it sounds I even use breathing exercises sometimes - not just because they actually work - but because the students think they are silly and fun - it gets the students to be a little less afraid of the teacher (me) - and a bit more willing to talk.

[Girl Scout]

I'm not a big fan of dialogues. In an Asian classroom students tend to memorize everything. They will memorize the dialogue and not learn anything.

Topics may be too difficult. You said their level is rather low. They probably don't feel they have the necessary vocabulary to say any more then two words on a subject.

Finds some games. Other posters have suggested you need to get the students to relax. Check out some of the EFL web sites and finds something that is a little noisey.

You should also not worry too much. We all probably go through this stage at first. Once you understand your position in the school you will find a way to make your boss happy and still do a good job.

[tw]

You should have posted this thread in the China Job-Related forum.

[Riddick]

I would like to say 'thank you' to everyone who has some good suggestions on this matter.

Ok I will try to write my words on the board at first then fade it out later.

I miss out something when I started this new topic its a Junior College I work in some students are here for fours years.

I know most of the students are good at reading but not at talking, there is one or two students that did write a letter to me I have coped these letters but some words I have miss out because I can't understand their writing.

Mr david
i am afraid of speaking a word and get it wrong and my friends will laugh at me please understand my feelings i am a good girl i want to study hard but my english is poor i like english very much but have no time to speak to foreigner i hope you could help me please.

Mr david
i am sorry i do not speak to you because my english is poor i want you to help me but i don't know how to speak to you as you are my first foreign teacher i will study hard and i like homework so if you are free i will try to speak with you can help me.

I don't know why they call me Mr David I have told them to say my name but I have been told by the leader they must call me Mr as I am their teacher and then I enter the room everyone must stand it's the rules.

Do any students stand for you when you enter the class room?

All my students I teach in grade one have been 'Told' they must go to my classes to learn English. But why should I teach those who don't want to learn? And waste my time on them when I can help the others who do!.

In teaching in China I have found by listening to the ones trying to speak English for the first time. So I put these in front of the class and those who say nothing and just laugh and play and talk Chinese at the back of class. These are the time wasters. Most of them don't come to class or just turn up late and sometimes don't bring a pen & paper. Don't get me wrong. I try my best in talking to them but they just laugh and walk out. So why should I waste my time?

What do you think?

[tw]

[Riddick]

Hi 'tw' I can understand what you said:

"Don't put the "good students" in the front and ignore the rest [Mix them up. It forces the "bad" students to participate. Make them do group work"

But I have tried this way before in the pass and it didn't work. Most students was just talking in chinese and stopping others from working. That's why I changed it. I told them (like 'you said') I would fail them if they didn't work. But they just laughed at me. They told me once in class that it didn't matter if I failed them because they have been told by their local teacher they would pass them.

I haven't come across this bad behavior here yet. But maybe it will happen or not. I was told that all the students here must stand for their teacher as this was the rules here.

I must find a better way. I was told they all must get to level four of English over the next three years. but I don't think I will stay here that long.

[/i]

[dajiang]

The students' main excuse is that they don't want to lose face by making mistakes when they answer. There is more to it though.
The students are not used to your way of teaching, which is 'the Western way'. Instead they are used to receiving information, not questioning it. Instead of understanding, focus is on reproducing the information. Finally, with regards to English, the Chinese teaching style is generally not about fluency, but correctness.

This is the culture they come from, and suddenly they find themselves in your classroom, that has a different culture, and where they are expected to act very differently.
The trick is to break away from their classroom culture, and actively create your own seperate culture in your classroom. To make the students realise that the minute they step into your classroom they are in a different culture altogether. This will eventually make them change their behaviour too.

I don't know if you have your own classroom?
Well, it helps if you do, because then you can start by rearranging the tables and chairs into any shape you want. Rows of two's isn't very ideal for conversation, making groups etc.
I prefer a large U on the outside and a smaller U in the middle, with an empty space at the front.
I put a radio there with some CD's that I'd put on at the start and end of every class. Just to relax everyone, including myself.
This is a start to create your own little 'country' inside the school.

Culture is defined by a few things. One thing is 'Power-distance' (Holbert).
This means when there's a large distance between the teachers and students (as in China), students are far less prone to react to what the teachers say. In fact, they are expected not to react.
We want the opposite. So it's important to minimise the distance between you and your students. Be informal, be an equal, be personal, and expect them to act in the same towards you. Explain what you expect from them.
When the distance in power is small, a debate with the teacher is expected and rewarded. It's more about understanding, than simply reproducing facts.

It's not easy to have everyone suddenly talk. This process will take some time.
At first they will be hesitant to talk. Another reason for this is because their culture is a Collective one, instead of an Individualistic one. In an individual society people are used to stand up for themselves. We are raised to be responsible for ourselves, not our families, parents or social group.
In a collective society you first look at the group you are from. Noone will stick their head out of the mowingfield, scared to be cut down. However, in a collective society people are more prone to speak on behalf of a group. To do group work (4's or 5's) works really well. To do pairwork works well too, and with dialogues and such it is inevitable.
Slowly work towards group presentations, pair presentations, and (if they want to) individual presentations. Speaking naturally, we focus on fluency, spoken English, and by doing presentations they are actively listening, speaking, and getting more confidence.

This is how I tackled the same problem a few years ago when I was working in Beijing at a vocational university. It worked really well, and I hope it can help you too.

Regards,
Dajiang

[tw]

Riddick, it sounds like your school either really doesn't give a crap about their students' learning English, or the students are bluffing.

Dajiang has also made some great points and suggestions. As a final resort, may I suggest you throw a pop quiz at them and make sure that if you are teaching 4 or 5 different classes of students, you have multiple sets of questions because they do WARN others about the pop quiz they just had so the others would cram. Record the marks and make it part of the final grade. If you REALLY want to humiliate the dont-give-a-crap students, pass the papers out and loudly announce the grades of the ones who failed the quiz.

[P-T]

Have they had an FT before? It could be you have a different accent, & they need a bit of time to get used to it. Spare a thought for my poor students; they've learned from British tapes & a Russian teacher, last year they had a Canadian teacher for 3-months, I'm a Kiwi, & my replacement is from Australia!
Writing on the board is important, especially if their level of English is low. It helps them absorb what you're saying. Even for more advanced students I write on the board because it gives them a visual reference for grammar points.

You're sounding a bit 'beaten' by all this. Easier said than done I know, but try to stay cheery. Just before lessons I tell myself "It's show time!". because that's exactly what it is, & paste a big grin on my face . No matter how lousy I'm feeling, or how much I dread a particular class, they're going to get the best I can give them; it's amazing how much it does for my own headspace, & the students responded once they realised they were going to be met with this vision every lesson.

I like what dajiang said about creating a separate culture in your classroom. If you have your own room, you could 'decorate' it with non-Chinese 'stuff'. Or have theme days/weeks/months (the beach, duckshooting season, music, Melbourne Cup etc). Part of their learning could be participation in creating the scenes. The visual stuff may help to remind them that the culture & participation style in this room is different from the rest of their lessons .

Good luck

[Riddick]

Hi dajiang thank's for some good suggestions I will try them.


Hi Prue Jarvis yes it would have been better for me if this college did have a F/T before.

Do anyone remember this News: it was Dingzhou city.

More than 100 people have been arrested for a bloody clash that killed six villagers and injured another 48 in a village in Hebei Province last month.

Former Party secretary of Dingzhou He Feng and former Party secretary of Kaiyuan Township Yang Jinkai were also detained for further investigation, Xinhua News Agency reported yesterday.

Preliminary investigations by the police panel indicate that the riot was the work of two contractors, Zhang and Zhen, who are building supporting facilities for a power plant near the village of Shengyou.

On June 11, more than 200 thugs with hunting rifles, clubs, sharpened pipes and other weapons, attacked farmers living in huts on a piece of scrub land near Shengyou in Dingzhou, reports said.

Six farmers and one attacker were killed in the attack, 48 others were injured and hospitalized, eight of whom were in a critical condition, reports said.

"A guy was shooting at us with a double-barrelled hunting rifle," said farmer Niu Zhenzong, who saw fellow villager Hou Tongshun being shot.

"The tragedy could have been avoided if the local governments had acted quickly to prevent the situation from further escalation," Hou Jinshui, a farmer from Shengyou, said.

Hou said a similar attack involving 20 unidentified people had occurred at the same place on April 20.

Both clashes were allegedly caused by a disputed land requisition between the village and the Hebei Guohua Dingzhou Power Plant, a key State project.

Infringements have also been found during the requisition process and further investigations are under way, according to a joint investigation group set up by the provincial and city land resource departments and discipline supervision departments.

The power plant requisitioned 25.8 hectares of land from Shengyou in 2003, reports said. Dingzhou's Land Resources Bureau said compensation for each mu (0.07 hectare) of land would be 15,480 yuan (US$1,800).

Some villagers were unhappy about the compensation and moved to the construction site at the beginning of 2004 in a bid to stop the building. The dispute has remained since then.

"The requisition decision was only made by the leaders of the village at that time," Hou said. "Most of the villagers did not even agree to the sale of the land at all."

Maybe that's why no F/T were here before.

I like to say "thank you" for everyone who has replied to my topic and gave me some good suggestions on this matter .

[dajiang]

Wow you're there in Dingzhou?

I remember seeing the video footage on the internet last summer.
Heavy stuff for sure.

I understand these kinds of 'battles' are happening more than we think in China, only this time someone got a camera and managed to get the film out.

Good luck then,
Dajiang