Job Discussion Forums

[Lynn]

[dyak]

What about all that you miss out on by not learning the local language? It must be like watching TV with the sound off� like some kind of self-enforced sensory deprivation.

And, (fire extinguishers on standby) is it just me or is the concept of an EFL teacher who�s crap at languages akin to that of a mechanic who, �knows a bit about Fords�?

[fat_chris]

Are you kidding me? Seven years in a country and there's an excuse for not even knowing a smattering of the local language?

As a guest of a foreign country, I think one does have an obligation to learn a bit of the local language. In my mind, this simply shows respect towards our hosts.

I think that it is hypocritical for a TEFLer to promote learning English to the locals but not learn a bit of the local language. While some of our students may never encounter English outside of the classroom and never really have a use for it in their lives (other than getting good marks on the highly esteemed exams), it goes without saying that the local language is highly relevant for a TEFLer when living in a foreign country.

I echo the sentiments of Lynn's message. For my colleagues and me, it was always extremely awkward when a group of us foreign ESL teachers visited a school and had a meeting with the administrators. The foreign ESL teachers never had any idea what was going on and that always upset them. A bit of knowledge of the local language (in no way implying fluency) would have smoothened out a lot of hard feelings.

I also agree with dyak. Isn't a part of being an EFL teacher abroad to experience the joys of living in another culture? I wholeheartedly believe that a basic knowledge of the local language helps enhance cultural understanding.

To say that the locals and our host country national colleagues don't expect us to learn the language, so there's no need to bother is mere rationalization. The effort does please our HCN collegues and it can indeed go a long way in fostering professional and personal relationships.

[naturegirl321]

I think that people who are going to live in a country for a while should at least learn the basics. It takes effort to go further, when people want to be your best friend so that they can practise English.

It is hard to go back. I've been away for 1.5 years and "home" twice. It's hard to relate to people and the majority really don't want to hear about how life was there. And just like I can't really relate to their lives.

[chinasyndrome]

Agreed that we should try to learn the language. As language teachers we're in a unique position to learn because we know how to plan and study. What isn't so easy is when you're in a place where more than one language is spoken or where there are local dialects and their derivatives.

Example: I'm in a special economic zone in China. There is a local dialect and the 5 satellite cities within close proximity all use this dialect although their accent and pronunciation varies from city to city. Someone born only 17km from the heart of this SEZ may have grown up speaking a variation on the central dialect. Being in southern China, Cantonese is also spoken by some, with quite a lot of variation between the 'machine gun ratatat' of those from Honkers and the more nasal tones of those from Guanzhou.

As an SEZ this city attracts a lot of people from other parts of China who, in typical fashion, tend to congregate in clusters because they can't speak the dialect. Putonghua is spoken quite poorly by the majority of locals who can speak it at all.

So here's the challenge: I stop at the small shop just outside my home. If the man is there he speaks the 'pure' dialect of this city. His wife, who was born in a city just 25km from here speaks the same dialect but with a strong accent that is markedly different. The taxi drivers come from all over the place and might speak anything from the 'pure' dialect to one of 5 variations, maybe Cantonese or maybe Putonghua with their regional accent overlaid. The FAO speaks HK Cantonese and her Putonghua sounds the same. The secretary speaks Putonghua with a very thick accent from somewhere up north.

So to do the right thing you learn some local dialect, which is the language of the markets. Many folk from the outlying cities grapple with what you're saying even though you're saying it 'correctly'. You learn a little Cantonese because a few people at the uni speak it and you have to speak to them daily. They use two different styles of pronunciation. Putonghua is your mainstay but you have to be careful who teaches you. Learning from a local will result in no one outside of your city being able to understand you.

By the time you get to the classroom you've spoken in 3 'languages' and potentially listened to 5 sub-classes of dialect, 1 variation of the provincial language, and many variations on the mother tongue of China before you even begin to teach your 4th (English).

It's scary when you begin to speak to people using a sort of hybrid of all these languages. When people ask if you speak a second language you tell them yes, it's called gibberish. :wink

Go easy on the guys who don't have the 'luxury' of only needing to deal with 1 language other than English.

[denise]

[Cleopatra]

Anybody ever find it really patronizing when people assume that just because you're an English speaker, you couldn't possibly learn a foreign language, let alone speak it well?

Or when two or more speakers of the same language have their personal conversations in English, supposedly for your benefit? As if I were interested in the inanities of their lives.

Call me touchy, but I find both of these things really patronizing!

[nomadder]

In Japan I hated not getting beyond the basics though once in a while I'd understand almost a whole conversation as if by magic. I loved going to the safe zone(in Japan and elsewhere)-those Indian, Nepalese, Chinese, Finnish, etc. restaurants where you could be assured of English except that could make you feel worse knowing these people who probably had a grade something education could speak at least 3 languages fluently. I found it weird when on occasion they spoke English at first but then insisted on Japanese even though it was first language to neither of us.

Re: respectfully trying to speak the host country's language. I was visiting a Canadian friend in small town Germany and she usually tried to get by in German but since I was a tourist (and couldn't remember much uni German) I had the luxury of speaking English and usually getting great English replies back. But while travelling I at least try to use the local hello and thank you.

It seems that in some countries they really want to speak English even if you can get by in their language while in other countries like Japan they feel uncomfortable with English (unless they've lived abroad or something) and will only switch to English when absolutely necessary after much struggle and you wonder what took them so long as their English wasn't so bad-better than my Japanese. Of course confidence plays a big role in language learning.

[nomadder]

Oh and I thought I would have rebounded sooner but I'm kinda lost in limboland at the moment.

[Lynn]

[Jess_Laoshi]

It is patronizing, but they're just being polite. It's worse if they use their native tongue assuming that you won't get it anyhow.

It used to aggravate the hell outta me when I would hang out with my boyfriend and a friend of his who also spoke good English, and the three of us would use English in conversation, and then they would switch to Chinese when they didn't necesarrily want to clue me in! My boyfriend discovered really quickly that my Chinese listening skills were more advanced than he'd first assumed.

[Cleopatra]

Jess,

Sometimes people are being polite when they speak English in your presence, but not always.

I lived in Italy a few years ago, and was already fluent in Italian before I went. Despite this, often when people heard an English accent, they would switch into fairly poor English, although it would have been much easier for us to communicate in Italian. It got to the point where I would pretend I was Russian or something and didn't speak English.

Mind you, Lynn, with people like your Japanese friend's American husband around (no offense) who make no effort to learn the local language, then I suppose it's no suprise if people don't believe that anyone would bother to learn! People like him get us English speakers a bad name!

[lajzar]

I just had the privilige of attending a school sports day, and being seated with all the VIPs. I tried speaking Japanese with them. Unfortunately, they tried speaking English with me, and, there being no diplomatic way to tell the most important man in town that his English is... not... we were forced into the awkward situation of not communicating at all, as he really didn't wanted to use Japanese with me.

Situations liek this make it hard to learn the local language.

[Wolf]

Yeah, learing the local langugage is good.

I can speak two langauges besides English. One at a survival level (but with a bad accent that makes it hard to use - as it's French) and one really well (Japanese.)

I guess I should learn Chinese as well. But, I also face CS's "dialectitis" problem - although to a lesser extent. Almost no one here really speaks what the Chinese government calls "Chinese."

I can listen and make purchases at stores. But most of my socializing problems come not from the fact that I don't speak Chinese, but rather from the fact I don't look Chinese. That coupled with the tiny community and lack of socializing opportunities (other than some of my students who deserve a highly honourable mention) means that I'm not going to be confusing the locals into thinking I'm one of them anytime soon.

If my life in China has a take two, I'll try again, though.

[dmb]

How many people who live in the gulf have learned Arabic? Expats do not usually socialise with the locals(they aren't allowed in the bars) On a daily basis english is the Linguafranca as all the people who work in shops, bars, sports clubs are usually from the subcontinent or asia. It would be more useful for me to learn punjabi!