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blondie10
Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 40
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 Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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Not
Last edited by blondie10 on Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jizzo T. Clown
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 668
Location: performing in a classroom near you!
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| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Gregor wrote: |
| I'll never understand this formal education thing. An experienced teacher with minimal requirements and some strong references beats the hell out of a master's degree any day, in my opinion. |
Gregor, haven't we had this discussion before, when I was trying to convince you that an experienced teacher could be just as viable as one with no experience, but holding *qualifications*??? I guess you've changed your mind since then!
As Denise and some others pointed out, just because someone has taken the time and expended the effort to earn an MA, this doesn't necessarily mean that they are ill-equipped to deal with the pragmatics of teaching ESL/EFL.
You've made a very general statement, one that is true about half the time (I presume). You've also neglected to give us your thoughts on a teacher who is both a degree holder and experienced...  |
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Deconstructor
Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 775
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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I think I have utter disrespect not for the teachers but for the students. In my mind no intelligent person would ever take a language course. An intelligent person would never waste his/her money, time and energy sitting in some boring class when language is all around and all one has to do is access it through TV, Internet, books, magazines, etc.. All one has to do is find someone to speak the language with. This is as close as one should come to a language class.
I think I have disrespect for the EFL/ESL industry as a whole precisely because it is based on this fundamental stupidity of the client and no one is more clueless and stupid than the language student.
I have profound disrespect especially for advanced speakers of English who still feel they need to attend class and "improve" their English even though they are more or less fluent and perfectly functional in any environment. They still yearn for more structure, so I teach them the future past perfect continuous passive active in the third person subjunctive. It gives them a warm fussy as they bask in the false glow of knowledge that they are learning something.
My first question to these morons is always "Exactly what do you hope to take form this class?" to which they always have some vague and stupid response such as "I want to improve my English". To my next question "What does that mean to you?" the response is a look as if they had just fallen on their heads riding their bikes to class. Usually my final sentence to them is "Congratulations on money, time and energy well spent since you took virtually nothing from this class; and even if you did, you certainly didn't need my help". BONEHEADS!!! |
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Guy Courchesne
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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That is about as far as one can get from the reality where I teach, in Mexico.
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| All one has to do is find someone to speak the language with |
...in particular. Might work well in Canada, but not in Mexico. Imagine 100,000,000 Mexicans clamouring to go and practice their English with every tourist that pops in and out. A Mexican would take your idealistic suggestion and call you an arrogant pendejo for it. If they had the time of course, since between a 12 hour workday and family, they probably couldn't afford to stop to listen to your armchair quarterbacking.
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| Exactly what do you hope to take form this class?" to which they always have some vague and stupid response such as "I want to improve my English". To my next question "What does that mean to you?" the response is a look as if they had just fallen on their heads riding their bikes to class. |
Not here. Having English language abilities in Mexico is often the difference between a raise and a pink slip at work. |
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Deconstructor
Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 775
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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Again Guy, as I have said many times before, one doesn't need a class to learn another language especially when one is working 12 hours a day as you suggested.
But hey Guy, did I touch a nerve? I thought you knew by now that that's my job.  |
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Guy Courchesne
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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Nope, no nerves hath been touched. You just need a foil...
It's simply not as easy you say...and, there are a lot of people out here TEFLing in the way you'd like to see...encouraging students to go out and learn on their own and to use tools like the net and magazines. And by gar, some TEFL programs are even training people to think like that too. |
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Deconstructor
Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 775
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Guy Courchesne wrote: |
Nope, no nerves hath been touched. You just need a foil...
It's simply not as easy you say...and, there are a lot of people out here TEFLing in the way you'd like to see...encouraging students to go out and learn on their own and to use tools like the net and magazines. And by gar, some TEFL programs are even training people to think like that too. |
WELL, BY GAR I've been teaching for more than a decade and I've rarely seen teachers who put the entire responsibility of learning a language squarely on students shoulders. And besides, students want easy answers and teaches want easy questions. |
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Guy Courchesne
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| I've been teaching for more than a decade and I've rarely seen teachers who put the entire responsibility of learning a language squarely on students shoulders. |
...and I'll bet you walked 3 km every day in the snow to get to work...uphill both ways.
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| students want easy answers and teaches want easy questions. |
Baloney.
In an ideal world, no one needs a class to learn a language, or how to ski, or design a webpage. Neither of us lives in that ideal world. |
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Deconstructor
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