|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
dove
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 271
Location: USA/Japan
|
 Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 9:34 pm Post subject: racism |
 |
|
It's hard to believe that some people on this forum condone and even respect racism in Japan. They ask what's the big deal and they question the purpose of speaking out against it.
They speak out against it for their children. Don't you realize that English teachers and members of the military are not the only foreigners in Japan? I am friends with some Brazilian Japanese in Tokyo and they are not here to pay off student loans or to fund their next jaunt to SE Asia. They are going to buy houses here, raise families here, settle here. Any act of racism is going to impact their children's future in the only country they call home.I know you are going to say that a hostess bar or a sento has little effect on a child. But allowing any place to exist with exclusionary policies might just allow a shop or a swimming pool to post the NO FOREIGNERS sign. That has already happened! What about when these children grow up and want to buy a house, vote, maybe even run for office. Where do you think the exclusion stems from?
Japan is NOT an insular country anymore. Consider all the Japanese students who study abroad. Think about all the Japanese companies with branches overseas. Consider all the Japanese tourists who travel in foreign countries. I have discussed this topic with my Japanese friends and they are embarassed and ashamed that racism exists in their country. That you, a foreigner, condone and even respect racism is astonishing to me. I know you want to fit in to the society that you are temporarily living in, but please NOT at the expense of the people who are here for the long run.
Dove |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
J-Pop
Joined: 07 Oct 2003
Posts: 215
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 10:12 pm Post subject: Re: racism |
|
|
| dove wrote: |
It's hard to believe that some people on this forum condone and even respect racism in Japan. They ask what's the big deal and they question the purpose of speaking out against it.
They speak out against it for their children. Don't you realize that English teachers and members of the military are not the only foreigners in Japan? I am friends with some Brazilian Japanese in Tokyo and they are not here to pay off student loans or to fund their next jaunt to SE Asia. They are going to buy houses here, raise families here, settle here. . . . That you, a foreigner, condone and even respect racism is astonishing to me. I know you want to fit in to the society that you are temporarily living in, but please NOT at the expense of the people who are here for the long run.
Dove |
Dove,
I'm somewhat hesitant to respond to your post--as I don't want to come across as being confrontational or argumentative. That is not my intent.
However, it is not clear whether you are responding to (criticizing) specific comments made in posts here, or whether you are being critical of an overall--perceived--attitude on the part of some forum members.
I personally have not read any posts (yet) that could be construed as "racist," especially not in the Japan section. Perhaps I haven't yet come across them? I am still somewhat new to this forum.
So--are there specific posts (I'm guessing there are) to which you object?
Taking this topic of racism in a (slightly) different direction: over the years I've had many friends from Japan, Korea, China, Singapore, Indonesia, Taiwan & Hong Kong (& Latin American countries, too). It seems that, overall, racism is alive & well in almost every Asian country. It seems to be part of their history & culture & mindset.
Also, in my time of teaching in Japanese public schools, I noticed & was told of a "pecking" order (racist?) among Japanese-Brazilians and Japanese-Peruvians--for example. I was present in one (elementary) school when a Japanese-Peruvian boy was physically assaulted by a Brazilian-Japanese, as the Peruvians (I was told) were considered to be "lower on the totem pole" than were the more established Brazilian-Japanese. (Part of the reason, I was told, is because most Peruvians' skin color is typically "darker"!!  )
My point: racism is not easily categorized & it is certainly not limited to only one group. It is something that is common nearly everywhere in the world.
Also, in my experience, though Japanese people may seem--while in your presence--to be "embarassed" by "racism," it may actually be their way of being polite; most Japanese that I've been friends with, don't really know how to handle criticism of their country--especially if the criticism is coming from a "westerner."
All this, of course, is only my opinion & (again) I don't intend these comments to be (necessarily) negative, or mean-spirited.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fromCanada
Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Posts: 48
Location: Ontario
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 10:57 pm Post subject: Re: racism |
|
|
| Quote: |
It seems that, overall, racism is alive & well in almost every Asian country. It seems to be part of their history & culture & mindset.
|
J-Pop,
What do you mean by "mindset"? I'm Asian and I felt somewhat offended by the above quote...probably because you are generalizing an entire region based on a few people you know....ouch. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
J-Pop
Joined: 07 Oct 2003
Posts: 215
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2003 12:06 am Post subject: Re: racism |
|
|
| fromCanada wrote: |
| Quote: |
It seems that, overall, racism is alive & well in almost every Asian country. It seems to be part of their history & culture & mindset.
|
J-Pop,
What do you mean by "mindset"? I'm Asian and I felt somewhat offended by the above quote...probably because you are generalizing an entire region based on a few people you know....ouch. |
1. I agree, it is a generalization.
2. I apologize if I offended. I tried to make clear the intent was not to offend. As noted, I was hesitant to respond to dove's post, didn't wanna "start anything," so to speak.
3. Also, I tried to be clear that, IMO, "racism" is not limited to any one "group" (Asians, or others, including "white" people).
4. "Mindset," what I was referring to is my understanding (perhaps, not accurate, but I think it is fairly close) that one of the most important underlying cultural influences in most Asian countiries is Confucianism. The idea that there is a clearly defined familial & social "pecking order." That is, an order where all are assigned their place, some are more important than other, and more.
5. Finally, I personally think there are some things in life worse than racism. No one likes to be the "outsider," but we all do have cognitive categories made up of "in" and "outs."
fromCanada:
Do you not agree that racist-type thinking is prevalent (typical) in Asia? Next time, it's your turn . . .  OK?
Actually, this is one of the comments I remember hearing--often--in my TESOL graduate classes. About 60% (more?) of my classmates were from outside the USA, primarily from Asia. It was a large class too!
Thus, these were mainly comments from Japanese & Koreans (some from Taiwan & China, too) for example. They (not me) said they were raised to think in a racist manner of each other. They were (they said) truly shocked to meet someone from the other nationality & to discover they liked each other! So, what's up with that?
So, I actually got this information from my Asian friends (born & raised in Asia, especially my Japanese friends, ones I met at uni., then hooked up with in Japan when I went there to teach. ) Too, some of my thinking (but not all) is influenced on my experience of living in Japan.
Lastly, uh . . . I've read a few books, too.
For example (but not limited to): "Japan's Minorities: The Illusion of Homogeneity" (ed. by Michael Weiner), "Education in Contemporary Japan" (Okano & Tsuchiya), "Japan's High Schools" (Rohlen), "Understanding Japanese Society" (Hendry), "The Clash: U.S. Japanese Relations throughout History" (La Feber), "Embracing Defeat: Japan in the Wake of World War ll" (Dower), "Learning to Bow: Inside the Heart of Japan," (Feiler).
I hope that helps answer your question. And, again, I sincerely feel bad that I offended. Please accept my apology   |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fromCanada
Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Posts: 48
Location: Ontario
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2003 12:41 am Post subject: Re: racism |
|
|
Oops..please see below.
Last edited by fromCanada on Wed Oct 15, 2003 12:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fromCanada
Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Posts: 48
Location: Ontario
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2003 12:42 am Post subject: Re: racism |
|
|
Pop asks me:
| Quote: |
| Do you not agree that racist-type thinking is prevalent (typical) in Asia? |
I would say racism is there, like it is in any country in the world. Prevalent or typical? I don't know, I haven't been to every single country in Asia and polled everyone (  ). Seriously, there is plenty of racism in every country - both direct and indirect.
By the way, you don't know really know what racism is until you've experienced it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
J-Pop
Joined: 07 Oct 2003
Posts: 215
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2003 12:55 am Post subject: Re: racism |
|
|
| fromCanada wrote: |
. . . .
By the way, you don't know really know what racism is until you've experienced it. |
1. Agree.
2. I have experienced it.
2a. Mi madre es una Latina. (My mom is Latin.)
--Thus, the permanent (nice) tan.
2b. My dad is a "white man." 
--Thus, the green (hazel) eyes. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2003 1:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| It's hard to believe that some people on this forum condone and even respect racism in Japan. |
I have to ask the same question as J-pop. What exam | | |
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
