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Chris_Travel_the_world
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Posts: 33
Location: Canada
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 Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 3:06 pm Post subject: Why Japan? |
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I was just wondering why people are still coming to Japan? Granted I came, but that was in large part because I had a Japanese girlfriend at the time. If someone is looking to save money Korea is a much better choice, and the middle east a far greater one still, if you are willing to accept the dangers of it. If you are coming because you want to be treated like a rockstar, sorry no luck there either, go to China. If it's about the culture, then I am sorry to let you in on a little secret, most Japanese people know and care very little about their culture. You have to search out traditional culture and it's never very cheap, almost every temple and castle charge a fee. If it's for the women...well..they are great but is that reason enough? If you were a Japanese studies major, then why did you study Japanese studies in the first place? Kinda useless isn't it?
Don't get me wrong! I love Japan! I have a lot of friends and am having a blast! I'm now in the process debating over whether or not to stay for another year and I am wondering if I hadn't had the Japanese girlfriend if it would be a logical choice to come here.
Just looking to hear your thoughts.
Don't hate on me eh, just want a dialogue!
Chris |
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Gypsy Rose Kim
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 151
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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I don't get where you're going with this, but I'm sure someone else will be along with the psychoanalysis and judgements soon enough.
I went to Japan the first time because I wanted to live in Tokyo. In my opinion, every other city in the world is just pretending to be a city. I was also studying part-time to get my masters in ESL (I dropped out early on and went to Japan), so I already knew I wanted to teach.
I went for Tokyo and teaching, and stayed because I came to love Japan. I now consider the Japanese to be the most highly-evolved people on the planet--by a long shot. I left for teaching, to gain perspective, and to make sure I wasn't just there because I was stuck in a rut.
I'm going back because, after a year in Australia, some travelling, and two years in Korea, I know for sure that Japan kicks all other countries' asses BIG TIME. |
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Chris_Travel_the_world
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Posts: 33
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| I am just interested in hearing what people have to say about why they chose Japan. I think I'll be staying here for a while and I was just curious. I know curiosity is often viewed as a sin around here. Just for arguement's sake, in what way does Japan kick all our countries ...you know what? |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I was just wondering why people are still coming to Japan? |
Despite everything you wrote, the answers are probably still (in no particular order):
1) money. Still lots of secondhand and old information floating around. Plus, many people who live in larger cities like London or NYC feel that the costs in Japan are comparable, not more expensive, so they don't see that as a barrier.
2) culture. The allure of the Orient will always be there, whether for older culture or modern culture. Japanese may not be taught in a lot of countries, but there still seem to be lots of Japanese majors. And, there are many people who are here because they had a wonderful experience on a homestay or exchange program and just want to return for a longer stay.
3) women. Yeah, the rumors still abound, and yes, it's still plenty of reason for some guys.
4) easy work for easy money. You know the drill for eikaiwas and JET program.
5) being treated like a rock star. Sorry, it still happens, even though people find out later that sometimes that status is not as good as it may seem, or that it may work against them.
6) desire to learn Japanese. Immersion is a wonderful thing to break away from a textbook. |
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Gordon
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Gypsy Rose Kim wrote: |
I now consider the Japanese to be the most highly-evolved people on the planet--by a long shot.
I know for sure that Japan kicks all other countries' asses BIG TIME. |
What exactly do you mean by this? You're not Ishihara perchance are you? Can't be, you can write in English. |
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sidjameson
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 629
Location: osaka
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:14 am Post subject: |
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I think it is a good question Chris. Here are just some observations, but forgive their random nature I haven't even eaten breakfast yet. 
People DONT think about things too much. Most people are in Osaka, NY, Manchester, Cape Town etc not because that's where they have chosen to live after considering all the options, but because there's where they ended up by birth or after a little bit of energy got them to move a little bit.
All talk about globalization aside it is still rather difficult for most people to work in a foreign country. Japan has a demand and so its possible to live here.
Most people aren't adventurers. I ended up getting into teaching because I ran out of money in Indonesia and wanted to stay. Most come to Japan simply because NOVA et al hire from abroad. It's easy, safe and guaranteed travelling.
Japan is an exceptionally easy country for a foreigner to live in. Anybody who doesn't know that simply hasn't travelled very much.
Despite what you say Japan still has some major pluses. For many here they couldn't earn the same money back home, get the same status, get the same dating success. Considering the above it's not surprising that they don't move on to find out if it is any better elsewhere.
And lastly, Japan is in fact a good option even compared to the countries you list. I couldn't work in an all male environment. China still doesn't seem to offer savings potential. The Japanese rarely cheat you. The women here dress like models (with the brains to match) I've only met kindness here, that's not the impression I get when reading the Korean boards.
Ok, ready for breakfast now. |
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MrCAPiTUL
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 232
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:27 am Post subject: |
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| Gypsy Rose Kim wrote: |
I don't get where you're going with this, but I'm sure someone else will be along with the psychoanalysis and judgements soon enough.
I went to Japan the first time because I wanted to live in Tokyo. In my opinion, every other city in the world is just pretending to be a city. I was also studying part-time to get my masters in ESL (I dropped out early on and went to Japan), so I already knew I wanted to teach.
I went for Tokyo and teaching, and stayed because I came to love Japan. I now consider the Japanese to be the most highly-evolved people on the planet--by a long shot. I left for teaching, to gain perspective, and to make sure I wasn't just there because I was stuck in a rut.
I'm going back because, after a year in Australia, some travelling, and two years in Korea, I know for sure that Japan kicks all other countries' asses BIG TIME. |
Perhaps you could go more in depth with your answer?
WHY do you feel Tokyo is the best city on Earth? Why do you consider the Japanese the most highly-evolved people on the planet [also, if the Japanese are the most highly-evolved people on Earth, what does that make you? Their inferior? - ps, as for evolution: http://www.glumbert.com/media/dolphin - eek!]? WHY does Japan kick every other country's arse?
Last edited by MrCAPiTUL on Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:00 am; edited 1 time in total |
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canuck
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 1921
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:31 am Post subject: Re: Why Japan? |
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| Chris_Travel_the_world wrote: |
I was just wondering why people are still coming to Japan? Granted I came, but that was in large part because I had a Japanese girlfriend at the time. If someone is looking to save money Korea is a much better choice, and the middle east a far greater one still, if you are willing to accept the dangers of it. If you are coming because you want to be treated like a rockstar, sorry no luck there either, go to China. If it's about the culture, then I am sorry to let you in on a little secret, most Japanese people know and care very little about their culture. You have to search out traditional culture and it's never very cheap, almost every temple and castle charge a fee. If it's for the women...well..they are great but is that reason enough? If you were a Japanese studies major, then why did you study Japanese studies in the first place? Kinda useless isn't it?
Don't get me wrong! I love Japan! I have a lot of friends and am having a blast! I'm now in the process debating over whether or not to stay for another year and I am wondering if I hadn't had the Japanese girlfriend if it would be a logical choice to come here.
Just looking to hear your thoughts.
Don't hate on me eh, just want a dialogue!
Chris |
Some people also answered here if you want some more information.
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=47597&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 |
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seanmcginty
Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 203
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:55 am Post subject: Re: Why Japan? |
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| Chris_Travel_the_world wrote: |
| I was just wondering why people are still coming to Japan? Granted I came, but that was in large part because I had a Japanese girlfriend at the time. If someone is looking to save money Korea is a much better choice, and the middle east a far greater one still, if you are willing to accept the dangers of it. |
You might make more money elsewhere but Japan is still competitive, you could easily save 1000$ US per month or more on an average Eikaiwa salary.
| Chris wrote: |
| If you are coming because you want to be treated like a rockstar, sorry no luck there either, go to China. |
Never heard of anyone coming to Japan to be treated like a rock star, except for Spinal Tap. Don't know what its like in China but most westerners get treated pretty well in Japan.
| Chris wrote: |
| If it's about the culture, then I am sorry to let you in on a little secret, most Japanese people know and care very little about their culture. You have to search out traditional culture and it's never very cheap, almost every temple and castle charge a fee. |
That is pretty weak. Its pretty damned easy to search out Japanese traditional culture, there are historic shrines, temples and other places just about everywhere you look, and most of them are free to wander around. Even the most famous temples, gardens, museums and castles rarely charge more than 400 or 500 yen for admission, so its actually extremely cheap to visit these places |
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AndyH
Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 417
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:09 am Post subject: |
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I agree with Gypsy Rose Kim.
Japan is different enough to be interesting, "exotic", and always offers something new to experience, but modern enough to be comfortable.
I've lived, worked, and travelled in 25 countries besides my own, and there is absolutely no place in the world like Japan.
I've first came to Japan in December 2002, after 7 months of hell in Korea, and am about to leave. I'm pretty tired and burned-out on eikaiwa work, but I absolutely love the country, and shall miss it. |
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Gypsy Rose Kim
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 151
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:16 am Post subject: |
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| MrCAPiTUL wrote: |
| Gypsy Rose Kim wrote: |
I don't get where you're going with this, but I'm sure someone else will be along with the psychoanalysis and judgements soon enough.
I went to Japan the first time because I wanted to live in Tokyo. In my opinion, every other city in the world is just pretending to be a city. I was also studying part-time to get my masters in ESL (I dropped out early on and went to Japan), so I already knew I wanted to teach.
I went for Tokyo and teaching, and stayed because I came to love Japan. I now consider the Japanese to be the most highly-evolved people on the planet--by a long shot. I left for teaching, to gain perspective, and to make sure I wasn't just there because I was stuck in a rut.
I'm going back because, after a year in Australia, some travelling, and two years in Korea, I know for sure that Japan kicks all other countries' asses BIG TIME. |
Perhaps you could go more in depth with your answer?
WHY do you feel Tokyo is the best city on Earth? Why do you consider the Japanese the most highly-evolved people on the planet [also, if the Japanese are the most highly-evolved people on Earth, what does that make you? Their inferior? - ps, as for evolution: http://www.glumbert.com/media/dolphin - eek!]? WHY does Japan kick every other country's arse? |
Okay, first of all, all individuals are equal. But if we're talking about groups, cultural traits, etc, then I think it's fair to compare. I'm not inferior and neither are you, of course.
Here are a few of the reasons I think Japanese are rather evolved:
They don't pay much attention to religion, but they don't really try to stop anybody else from believing what they want to.
They aren't particularly needy, emotionally manipulative, or nosy.
They smile A LOT (except on the subways, tee, hee).
There are certainly social problems and a gap between the rich and the poor, but unlike other Asian countries people have a chance to follow their dreams (and they've all got some pretty far-out dreams) rather than following some prescribed course.
They are honest and dependable, despite the way that many outsiders misinterpret the notions of honne and tatemae.
They do their best and are focused on the process rather than simply the end results or social posturing.
Their minds are amazingly free and creative, and, perhaps due to their economic situation over the past several decades, they tend to believe anything (good) is possible.
They're efficient and organized. They're a little lazy, in a way I adore, but when the time comes to buckle down and work hard, they do so without complaining. I guess you could say they tend to choose their battles wisely in this regard.
They don't go on about good and evil. They see the humanity in all situations. This is beautiful, and I wish more of the world would learn from them.
They have impeccable manners and are very welcoming to foreigners. They are tolerant and humble.
These are just off the top of my head, and I am only speaking in generalizations because that's the tone of the thread. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of things that drive me crazy.
As for Tokyo, it is a place where you (and I mean, just about anyone, not just English teachers or even foreigners) can do anything or be anything you want. Part of this is due to the scale of the economy, part of it is due to some of the stuff I mentioned above, part of it is due to the anonymity in which most Tokyoites (?) exist, part of it is due to the energy and the efficiency and the open minds of not only the Japanese dwellers but also those who've adopted Japan as their homes and those who are just passing through.
By saying I love Japan, it is not meant as a slight against anywhere else. Unlike many, I also dearly love Korea. But at the end of the day, I know where I feel the most comfortable, and where I can make the most of my life. That's Tokyo. |
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:27 am Post subject: |
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| I suppose you'll be gushing about natto next, GRK? |
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southofreality
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 579
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:51 am Post subject: Re: Why Japan? |
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| Chris_Travel_the_world wrote: |
| If it's about the culture, then I am sorry to let you in on a little secret, most Japanese people know and care very little about their culture. |
This is one of the most ridiculous statements I've read in this forum in a long time. What "little secret"? What insight do you think you have that most readers here don't? If you had said "To me, it seems as if most Japanese people know and care very little about their culture", that's one thing. But to have stated that most Japanese people know and care very little about their culture like it was a fact, was asinine. Do you really live in Japan? If your experiences in Japan have led you to believe such a thing, I'm sorry.
| Chris_Travel_the_world wrote: |
| You have to search out traditional culture |
Maybe the parts of Japanese culture that are most interesting to you need to be sought out. But, traditional Japanese culture is everywhere here.
I'm not "hating on you", Chris; just contributing to the dialogue.
Last edited by southofreality on Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:51 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Sour Grape
Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 241
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| Gypsy Rose Kim wrote: |
| MrCAPiTUL wrote: |
| Gypsy Rose Kim wrote: |
I don't get where you're going with this, but I'm sure someone else will be along with the psychoanalysis and judgements soon enough.
I went to Japan the first time because I wanted to live in Tokyo. In my opinion, every other city in the world is just pretending to be a city. I was also studying part-time to get my masters in ESL (I dropped out early on and went to Japan), so I already knew I wanted to teach.
I went for Tokyo and teaching, and stayed because I came to love Japan. I now consider the Japanese to be the most highly-evolved people on the planet--by a long shot. I left for teaching, to gain perspective, and to make sure I wasn't just there because I was stuck in a rut.
I'm going back because, after a year in Australia, some travelling, and two years in Korea, I know for sure that Japan kicks all other countries' asses BIG TIME. |
Perhaps you could go more in depth with your answer?
WHY do you feel Tokyo is the best city on Earth? Why do you consider the Japanese the most highly-evolved people on the planet [also, if the Japanese are the most highly-evolved people on Earth, what does that make you? Their inferior? - ps, as for evolution: http://www.glumbert.com/media/dolphin - eek!]? WHY does Japan kick every other country's arse? |
Okay, first of all, all individuals are equal. But if we're talking about groups, cultural traits, etc, then I think it's fair to compare. I'm not inferior and neither are you, of course.
Here are a few of the reasons I think Japanese are rather evolved:
They don't pay much attention to religion, but they don't really try to stop anybody else from believing what they want to.
They aren't particularly needy, emotionally manipulative, or nosy.
They smile A LOT (except on the subways, tee, hee).
There are certainly social problems and a gap between the rich and the poor, but unlike other Asian countries people have a chance to follow their dreams (and they've all got some pretty far-out dreams) rather than following some prescribed course.
They are honest and dependable, despite the way that many outsiders misinterpret the notions of honne and tatemae.
They do their best and are focused on the process rather than simply the end results or social posturing.
Their minds are amazingly free and creative, and, perhaps due to their economic situation over the past several decades, they tend to believe anything (good) is possible.
They're efficient and organized. They're a little lazy, in a way I adore, but when the time comes to buckle down and work hard, they do so without complaining. I guess you could say they tend to choose their battles wisely in this regard.
They don't go on about good and evil. They see the humanity in all situations. This is beautiful, and I wish more of the world would learn from them.
They have impeccable manners and are very welcoming to foreigners. They are tolerant and humble.
These are just off the top of my head, and I am only speaking in generalizations because that's the tone of the thread. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of things that drive me crazy.
As for Tokyo, it is a place where you (and I mean, just about anyone, not just English teachers or even foreigners) can do anything or be anything you want. Part of this is due to the scale of the economy, part of it is due to some of the stuff I mentioned above, part of it is due to the anonymity in which most Tokyoites (?) exist, part of it is due to the energy and the efficiency and the open minds of not only the Japanese dwellers but also those who've adopted Japan as their homes and those who are just passing through.
By saying I love Japan, it is not meant as a slight against anywhere else. Unlike many, I also dearly love Korea. But at the end of the day, I know where I feel the most comfortable, and where I can make the most of my life. That's Tokyo. |
Hmm. I disagree with nearly all of that list, but I don't feel it would be constructive to disect all of them with anecdotal evidence to the contrary.
The one about the chance to follow their dreams was the one to which I raised my eyebrows the highest. I would say that few Japanese men have the chance to do this, unless their dream is to spend 95% of their waking hours wearing a suit in an office. For Japanese women, perhaps, after they marry and quit work.
Still, good for you for having such a positive outlook. I bet you have a great time here in Tokyo (no sarcasm at all). I do too, but it tends to be in spite of the people much of the time, rather than because of them I wish I could load some of my cynicism on to you. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:08 am Post subject: |
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Honest and dependable?
Have you read any local news lately?
They're efficient and organized?
Japanese? Who are you kidding?
They have impeccable manners and are very welcoming to foreigners.
Manners can be tatemae, as can the welcome to foreigners. You really need to learn a LOT more about this, but sadly the only way is through experience.
Their minds are amazingly free and creative?
See something, copy and miniaturize it, sell it. Not very creative.
They do their best and are focused on the process rather than simply the end results or social posturing?
Not sure what you mean here. Focusing on the process usually takes 100 times longer than what many others would do to get those end results. Social posturing exists big time here, in case you didn't know.
I don't want to go on. Nuff said. |
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